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#51 2022-01-18 21:04:57

Re: THE LIVING WORD

Some corrections:


JimiPickle wrote:

Consciousness is what sees, not the eyes. The eyes produce an image but the eyes do not posses the knowledge of what is being seen.

It is VISION=CONSCIOUSNESS that "sees", but this VISION, is not the "seeing" of objects or recognizing bodies, galaxies, etc. (this is fundamental to understand correctly) VISION DOES NOT NEED TO SEE OBJECTS TO SEE. Or what is the same thing CONSCIOUSNESS DOES NOT NEED THE WORLD/UNIVERSE OUT THERE TO KNOW ITSELF.

All the work we are doing is to bring you into "this form of VISION". This means that we are turning the mind upon ITSELF and in turning the mind upon ITSELF, it is realized that what we TRULY ARE IS ONLY VISION OF MYSELF THAT IS BEYOND thought, even beyond EXISTING, and even beyond the very idea of CONSCIOUSNESS and even beyond the idea of VISION.


JimiPickle wrote:

Same for all the senses. The senses sense, but it is consciousness that understands what is being sensed.

Let's investigate this proposition you make and see if we have verified correctly...
If the senses felt, "they would know that they are". That is, does the ear hear you? and, does the taste savor you? and, does the touch touch touch you? and, do the eyes see you? and, does the brain think you?
Neither the ear hears you, nor the taste tastes you, nor the touch touch touches you, nor the eyes see you, nor the brain thinks you. They, the senses, do NOT know that YOU ARE.

On the other hand, "if it is the consciousness that understands what it feels". What understanding was there, is there, of what sensation, when no sense knows that YOU ARE?  This "consciousness" that says "that consciousness understands that it feels", is still JimiPickle's "I" consciousness. I'll put it another way, if the sense organs were to disappear including the brain, how would JimiPickle be understood to feel?.... To understand that you feel is NOT to know that you ARE. Knowing that you ARE, does not depend on the senses or JimiPickle.

Last edited by CHARCOtranquilo (2022-01-18 21:09:06)


I opened the door
and your Presence entered
like a sword,
without asking.

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#52 2022-01-19 16:17:53

JimiPickle
Member

Re: THE LIVING WORD

Agree, the vision that is being seen, in the mind space, is not done through the eyes, brain or by any effort of Jimipickle. From BEYOND is the best word choice for this awareness and with focused effort a sensation of infinite space if observed. Another description would be ABOVE the vessel. This VISION=CONSCIOUSNESS exists without the need for the vessel.

Thank you for the new references, they were most helpful in SEEING what is being seen and UNDERSTANDING what is being understood.

Edit: due to unexpected events, dedicated time to this current practice has been limited. The moments spent pondering are frequently interrupted. An attempt was made last night, but I feel asleep. This interruption to the lives here should return to normal Saturday.

The VISION that is seen in the mind space was wrongfully understood in the answer provided. “I” was involved. The senses were not the vehicle of this VISION and nothing to do with it at all. This vision moves through walls without moving,  does not have a body, and transcend time. It does not need anything from the vessel to do this. This understanding of what this vision is and how it does what it does is birthed and further exploration of everything it is, is sought.

Edit 2: an observation, this VISION, which can transcend time and space, holds no judgements or trauma. It is peaceful and is without the awareness of duality/ judgements. My thinking mind can interrupt and a different experience is felt, the one of judgements and duality.

Last edited by JimiPickle (2022-01-21 17:25:47)

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#53 2022-01-22 08:04:22

JimiPickle
Member

Re: THE LIVING WORD

The Practice:
“Throughout the day we will focus all activity on this question. That is to say, we will ask the question internally in any external action that we carry out. If I am walking, for example, I will ask: How do I do this walking...? If I am doing the dishes, I will ask: How do I do that I do this doing the dishes... etc, etc.
The goal of this practice is not to mentally describe the various actions involved in the activity you are doing, but to allow the question to sink into an observation of the non-doing that is occurring "not doing" that is occurring without the "I" being present in the activity.
Realize that your eyes see but do not see themselves. Your eyes do not need to see each other in order to see. Likewise, your "I" is not necessary as an agent participating in the witnessing action.”

The not doing?
It is an act. The activities, all of them, they are an act. It is the illusion.? Consciousness, the Mind, would it choose these acts? No. It is just observing the acts of the “I”. Each actor…an illusion, never seeing itself, it’s real self. There have been moments when the answers I have given were inconsistent with a conscious realization of what should have been said…but/and/so, the act played out. One is being observed now…a family member. Their acts, so inconsistent with the true self known by me. Strange, as if they have no control over what they are doing. How can this be?

How can this be?

The play unfolds each day anew. The acts begin and end; repetitive motion, unrehearsed, live and completely unaware. Tossed to and fro; go to work, tend to family, chores; chaos playing out while searching for meaning; never seeing what is seen. Sleepwalking while believing to be awake. Who are these beings in the lives before my eyes? They are me, asleep yet walking, talking and doing…acting out their scene; unaware.

How can this be?

Last edited by JimiPickle (2022-01-22 17:19:30)

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#54 2022-01-23 01:19:34

Re: THE LIVING WORD

SEEING WHAT WAS NOT WITH ME.

In this work we are doing of the "non-doer", that is, that we are not "owners, of our works", because there is no "I" that becomes possessor of the action. The "I" is an illusion that appears to be necessary within ONLY the illusion that this world/universe that is being witnessed. It is not that we are not the builders of the dream. The dream is "seen" because it is projected by the same consciousness that witnesses it, because "seeing" and witnessing are the same act. What we do not own, as in a dream dreamed during the night, is the results of the dream when we awaken to wakefulness. No one claims when waking to wakefulness from the dream dreamed dream during the night that he is the doer of all the acts that were performed. No one takes responsibility during the night dream for the relationships he or she established with the characters that interacted with the dreamed character and for the consequences that resulted from those relationships with the dreamed characters. Everyone recognizes when awakening to wakefulness that the "doer of the acts were never acts of oneself." THERE WAS NEVER AN APPROPRIATION OF THE ACTS, ONLY AN OBSERVER OF THE ACTS.

But if we go much deeper, the understanding of this "non-appropriation by the doer" is not that the "dream is being witnessed as an ataraxia devoid of all affect". It is that one implicitly recognizes, per se, that this BIRTH_STATE_DIE that is apparently being witnessed, at this very instant IS SEEING EVERYTHING THAT IS NOT NOW WITH ME. What does THIS WITH ME represent? This "WITH ME" represents that this birth_death_state WAS NOT WITH ME. That is to say, just as in the dream dreamed dream last night "the dreamer of the dream" implicitly knows that the act of dreaming "is witnessed" but implicitly knows that the dram IS NOT AND NEVER EXISTS IN THE VIGIL, because no one can bring to his vigil the dream dreamed dream during the night.

So, in what does this VISION beyond CONSCIOUSNESS, beyond EXISTING, beyond the "non-doer" consist... in that the VISION SEES THAT NOTHING WAS WITH ME NOW. THAT VISION IS NEVER THE VISION OF A SOMEONE NOR EVEN OF A SOMETHING because the ONLY thing that remains of THIS ABSENT VSION OF this state-birth-death. This is why now that we are "witnessing" this dream of death that we have deluded ourselves into believing that we have been born into this dream.  We have to realize that we WHO ARE ONLY VISION "are witnessing NOW, that in this seemingly present dream, THAT AT THE SAME TIME WE ARE WITNESSING THAT THIS DREAM IS NOT.  And finally we have to realize that we ARE NOT WHAT WE ARE PRESENTING: we are not the dream of death that we are witnessing NOR EVEN WHEN THIS BIRTH STATE WAS NOT.  IT TAKES US BEYOND BEYOND BEYOND.

Last edited by CHARCOtranquilo (2022-01-23 01:21:46)


I opened the door
and your Presence entered
like a sword,
without asking.

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#55 2022-01-23 02:43:50

JimiPickle
Member

Re: THE LIVING WORD

“The dream is "seen" because it is projected by the same consciousness that witnesses it, because "seeing" and witnessing are the same act.”

So, The container of consciousness within a sub-strate of consciousness, which is all from the same CONSCIOUSNESS, is seeing and witnessing the same act, which has no doer appropriating anything. Is this correct?

The illusion, which is so loud and intrusive right now, is SEEN as this, “THERE WAS NEVER AN APPROPRIATION OF THE ACTS, ONLY AN OBSERVER OF THE ACTS.” With emphasis placed on OBSERVER OF THE ACTS, which was SEEN yesterday and it is just as you state, a dream state, only thickened.

BEYOND the illusion of I/doer, BEYOND it’s dream state, BEYOND the vision that sees…what SEES the VISION? CONSCIOUSNESS, or more BEYONDS?

Does frustration with the doer occur once VISION SEES the illusion of the doer? Yes. (Smile). Prudence is observed with message/post 46. (Smile, again).

Edit:

Reflecting on what has been learned, Love for jimipickle was found. Past everything that has been revealed, this consciousness is filled with love to have had him as a vessel to accompany. Love, once again, is found without fault. Additionally, this awareness only strengthens the character in which consciousness exists. This allows for greater confidence in moving about with naïveté in an uncertain world/illusion where impermanence exists and this impermanence is ever present today.

Thank you, CHARCOtranquilo,  for your patience, commitment and love.

Last edited by JimiPickle (2022-01-24 03:56:24)

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#56 2022-01-24 20:34:42

Re: THE LIVING WORD

JimiPickle wrote:

So, The container of consciousness within a sub-strate of consciousness, which is all from the same CONSCIOUSNESS, is seeing and witnessing the same act, which has no doer appropriating anything. Is this correct?

Yes, that is correct.
When CONSCIOUSNESS is immersed in ITSELF, (and this is not a metaphysical speculation, but a self-evident reality) from that instant, the sense of ownership of the "activities in the dream" dissolves by itself. It is understood that there are no individuals, there are only universal activities that occur without any "someone/something" being able to appropriate what has happened.

These "universal activities" with their "presence" reveal by themselves in the same dream that all their content WAS NOT THERE BECAUSE THE ACTS IN A DREAM BY DEFINITION HAVE NO EFFECTS BECAUSE THEY DO NOT EXIST. There is no actor who is performing them, only a movement that is apparent in consciousness and that jumps from image to image, from scene to scene and that creates the whole illusion of action and movement. BUT THE REALITY IS THAT NOTHING IS MOVING. IN THIS UNIVERSE/DREAM NOTHING IS MOVING BY ITSELF. CONSCIOUSNESS is per se IMMUTABLE AND ONLY THAT WHICH IS UNCHANGED IS THAT WHICH IS REAL.




JimiPickle wrote:

BEYOND the illusion of I/doer, BEYOND it’s dream state, BEYOND the vision that sees…what SEES the VISION? CONSCIOUSNESS, or more BEYONDS?

The question should not be formulated in the positive since THAT which is BEYOND CONSCIOUSNESS cannot be described. Any attempt to describe it distances and separates it from your understanding. For this is NOT an understanding of the mind, it is NOT an understanding fantasized in the imagination, it is NOT an understanding of logic, it is NOT wisdom, it is NOT scholarship ever, for it will never be possible to access that which IS by these means.

However, the proposition can be made and must be made in the negative. That is to say, in order for this understanding to emerge without the mind interposing and appropriating this INEFFABLE UNDERSTANDING, THAT WHICH WAS NOT WITH ME must always be proposed. And what is it that was not in this "with me"? This state-birth-death: what is it that "names" this "with me" when this state-birth-death is NOT now? That which "names" when NOTHING IS NOW, is this INEFFABILITY BEYOND.

Therefore, in what does this VISION consist? This VISION, SEES, that nothing is now with you. And in what does this "with you" consist ?  It is this VISION that SEES, this natal state (the dream of believing yourself born and that you are going to die) and also that SEES that this natal everything, this dream of death, IS NOT NOW. ALL NOW.  But this VISION, "KNOWS" that none of this, all now, is NOT happening.  That is, the presence of this this this dream and its absence. Neither is real and what remains is THIS BEYOND.
'

Practice:

For 10 minutes twice a day, choose any quiet environment and look around you, and concretely apply to everything you see (object or person) the following proposition:

Was this table with me when absolutely nothing was?
Was this hand with me when absolutely nothing was?
This vehicle was with me when absolutely nothing was?
This sky was with me when absolutely nothing was?   
Etc, etc, etc, etc.

It is important that you do not exclude anything that appears before your vision, the proposition should apply to whatever you see both in what is closest to you and what is farthest away from you. Do this with total impartiality.

Last edited by CHARCOtranquilo (2022-01-24 22:07:49)


I opened the door
and your Presence entered
like a sword,
without asking.

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#57 2022-02-02 18:52:29

JimiPickle
Member

Re: THE LIVING WORD

“Practice:
For 10 minutes twice a day, choose any quiet environment and look around you, and concretely apply to everything you see (object or person) the following proposition:
Was this table with me when absolutely nothing was?
Was this hand with me when absolutely nothing was?
This vehicle was with me when absolutely nothing was?
This sky was with me when absolutely nothing was?   
Etc, etc, etc, etc.
It is important that you do not exclude anything that appears before your vision, the proposition should apply to whatever you see both in what is closest to you and what is farthest away from you. Do this with total impartiality.”

After spending a week with this practice, certain realizations have occurred . The vision created/viewed by the eyes has not changed. There was some expectation that the observations by the eyes would change, but nothing disappeared/appeared. This vision seen by the eyes is a shared vision with one/everyone seeing the same things with their eyes. From my living room to the buildings of a near by town to nature itself, the eyes share a collective view of what is seen; the eyes create the view of what is seen, not vice versa, i.e. the world created is what the eyes sees.

So, were the images seen by the eyes with me when absolutely nothing was? No, they are created views…of collective agreements.?  None of it is real; all of it is created by the eyes to see. Jimipickle is autonomous? He sees what he created to see, but it is all an illusion? He does what he does in this illusion, says what he says in this illusion, experiencing what he is to experience in this illusion.

It is almost like Jimipickle is a parasite to consciousness…living off the consciousness that is me.?

Edit: or has my consciousness chosen Jimipickle to accompany in this journey?

Last edited by JimiPickle (2022-02-02 20:13:15)

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#58 2022-02-03 16:01:45

Re: THE LIVING WORD

JimiPickle wrote:

After spending a week with this practice, certain realizations have occurred . The vision created/viewed by the eyes has not changed. There was some expectation that the observations by the eyes would change, but nothing disappeared/appeared. This vision seen by the eyes is a shared vision with one/everyone seeing the same things with their eyes.

In this work we are not trying to "change in form the objects/subjects that appear in the world. However, what we are trying to change is the interpretation of false reality that you are giving to the illusion.

If the objective of this work were to change the form of the objects or subjects that we think we see "out there" and that, therefore, this would imply that we would be closer to the VISION OF REALITY....

1. We would be implicitly considering these to be real.

2. The fact of "seeing" a distinct material and even immaterial energetic form will not imply that they are still as illusory as before they "changed form".

The world of illusion is made of "change". This is the axiom that intrinsically defines illusion.

When you actually reach this "form of VISION", you will realize that you do not need to change ANY of what you perceive out there. The world of forms, whether material or immaterial, will remain as illusory as it ever was. The only difference is that now the discernment (which you do not have now) between the illusory and the REAL will be your "new perception/understanding".

That is, what we are trying to introduce is contrastive correctness: I will express it in another, more illustrative way:

How do you know that a one dollar bill is counterfeit?..... Because you have a clear and accurate picture of what a real dollar bill looks like.  So that you have a plausible image of how this revelation will be given I will express it with this metaphor:

It is as if the transparent space that you are observing out there and that contains that illusory world of "out there" merges with that inner transparent empty space of which that which you call "your mind" is constituted and which you now believe forms the boundary between "the mind and the world you interpret as outside".
REALIZE that I am not saying that you will merge with the objects that appear out there, nor with the thoughts that you have in there in your mind. THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

There are no fireworks here, no altered states of consciousness, nor are we trying to get superpowers to walk through walls. These are just concepts that can only be fantasized in the world of illusion and duality.

VISION has no superpowers because IT, VISION, HAS NO BORDERS TO CROSS, HAVING NO LIMITS.

Remember: VISION, is full of ITSELF and simultaneously empty of ITSELF.


I opened the door
and your Presence entered
like a sword,
without asking.

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#59 2022-02-03 19:13:15

Re: THE LIVING WORD

PRACTICE:

In this practice we will perform, it is a continuity of the previous one. But this time we will invert the focus of attention from the outside to the inside.  That is, observe the thoughts that cross your mind for 10 minutes or so and apply the proposition of the previous practice.

When using your thoughts as subjects for the application of today's idea, identify each one by the central figure or event it contains. For example:

Was this thought about my garden with me when there was absolutely nothing?

Was this thought about my work concerns with me when there was absolutely nothing?

Was this thought about whether I am doing this practice well with me when there was absolutely nothing?

As in the previous practice, maintain an unbiased and even-handed attitude. That is, do NOT make any distinction between good or bad, indifferent or important, creative or routine thoughts etc, etc. No thought constitutes part of the VISION, which is hidden behind them. Do not fall into the error of establishing the illusory criterion that there are thoughts less illusory than others.





PS: You are doing a good job. I know it is not easy as the difficulty is greater the more obvious the TRUTH is shown to our eyes. The instinctive survival response of the "ego-self" is always to deny it as a way of trying to hide it to protect itself from its imminent demise. This the ego identifies as death, since it only projects what it believes in.

My patience is in the same measure as its difficulty.
My commitment is in the same measure as its constancy.
And LOVE is beyond both.


I opened the door
and your Presence entered
like a sword,
without asking.

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#60 2022-02-04 15:51:12

JimiPickle
Member

Re: THE LIVING WORD

What is real…what is counterfeit?


Dreams dreaming dreams. What is real, what is counterfeit? Wake up somewhere new, melodrama after melodrama. Waiting for time to tick by to move to the next dream. Moving while stationary, new place, new drama. Dreams dreaming dreams inside a dream, all of it is counterfeit; ever changing. What happened yesterday? It was important two days ago, now…just a past dream, gone. What about the drama? Ended. What happens tomorrow? Another dream.

Not sure what real is anymore my friend; for this dream is not.

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#61 2022-02-05 19:42:01

JimiPickle
Member

Re: THE LIVING WORD

Reflecting on what these questions are asking.

“Was the thought about (subject/object) with me when absolutely nothing was?”

Even an illusion is something, right? So what context is “absolutely nothing was” derived?

The illusion/world that “I” sees is based on duality which is influenced by beliefs, opinions, logic and judgements. The thoughts from “I” also based on duality that include desires, judgements, likes/dislikes. So the illusion/world seen from the eyes and evaluated by the “I” are not necessarily what is SEEN/UNDERSTOOD by consciousness, right? So what is real? Nothing? Is this where the “absolutely nothing with me” is derived?

Is there anything with me, the Consciousness? If the “I” is operating independently from the Consciousness, then there is certainly Nothing with Me the Consciousness. Everything learned and experienced by the “I” only creates more of the same experiences for it to experience; to no end.

The “I” once thought it had all the answers. There are no answers to duality, only more experiences of duality. Yet, knowing this does not reveal what is real?

Could you please offer another metaphor?

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#62 2022-02-05 23:48:03

Re: THE LIVING WORD

JimiPickle wrote:

[...] Even an illusion is something, right? So what context is “absolutely nothing was” derived?

[...]So what is real? Nothing? Is this where the “absolutely nothing with me” is derived?

An illusion by definition DOES NOT EXIST. Ergo, what REMAINS is this, absolutely nothing was/is. It is "WHAT REMAINS" that names this "WITH ME".  But this "WITH ME", is NOT nothingness. There is VISION of "something" that is VISION. But this "something" that is VISION is SEEN from absolutely nothing was/is.

Your error of "vision" is in that you have identified yourself with this "I" idea called JimiPickle. Then in this "absolutely nothing was/is", JimiPickle also was/is not, and this you associate with the idea of "non-existence" which is the same as "nothingness". Thus, the mind "I" creates another pseudo-identity called "nothing". But it is still JimiPckle believing it is now "the idea nothing". This is what is hiding that you cannot SEE what VISION is because VISION is neither "something" nor is it "nothing".

Now I will give you a new reference which is that of deep sleep: that is, that period of dreaming in which there is no sleep with dreams, nor are you in the waking or awake state. Realize that in that moment of deep sleep there WAS NOTHING WITH YOU, BUT HOWEVER THERE IS VISION OF THAT WITH YOU where JimiPickle IS NOT. Does the idea JimiPickle exist in deep sleep?.... NO. But IS THERE THAT WITH YOU THAT YOU SEE NOW THAT IS ONLY VISION WITH ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WAS WITH ME? YES. do you realize what this WITH ME is now?  THIS IS THE REALITY OF WHAT YOU ARE WITHOUT MIND.

But there is something else: realize that this "deep sleep where nothing was/is", where JimiPickle was NOT, is SEEN NOW that you are in the waking state reading these words. Because if it were not so you would not be able to recognize and understand what it is like to be in the "deep sleep without JimiPickle". This is why I insist to you that this VISION, is ALWAYS being SEEN NOW without JimiPickle.

Last edited by CHARCOtranquilo (2022-02-05 23:49:03)


I opened the door
and your Presence entered
like a sword,
without asking.

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#63 2022-02-06 02:23:25

JimiPickle
Member

Re: THE LIVING WORD

“This is why I insist to you that this VISION, is ALWAYS being SEEN NOW without JimiPickle.”

This VISION is aware even when Jimipickle is not. This VISION SEES what Jimipickle sees when he looks upon this world and SEES when he is asleep and/or dreaming. This VISION SEES without the eyes and without the need for Jimipickle. However, this VISION is not doing anything, IT just SEES. So, typing this message with the hands of Jimipickle, using his eyes and thoughts to type this message, VISION sees all but is not doing anything. Jimipickle, in turn, cannot see this VISION and believes he is the one with the vision to type this message…

This VISION, without name and without form exists to SEE and Jimipickle is using this source to experience this illusion? Without this VISION, Jimipickle could not be, yet this vision only SEES, so it needs Jimipickle to do. So, what ever happens in the illusion-experience is irrelevant? Jimipickle can seek whatever he wants to seek. Of course, there are repercussions to certain actions within the illusion, however, VISION only SEES, it is Jimipickle that will feel the effects of seeking.

Are we trying to do something from this VISION or are we trying to identify/clarify that Jimipickle, who seeks, is only doing so because this VISION wants to SEE what is sought by Jimipickle? Which is something that this VISON cannot do on its own. Everything is an illusion and everyone in the illusion…dies.

There is freedom in this understanding.

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#64 2022-02-06 10:15:01

JimiPickle
Member

Re: THE LIVING WORD

Wait! So, VISION SEES this existence, but does not DO anything. The mind, which is in a CONTAINER OF CONSCIOUSNESS, formed the I that is experiencing this existence, which is an illusion, however, this illusion feels pain, suffering and replicates these effects from birth to death over and over again…would this be correct?

CONSCIOUSNESS = VISION ON VISION
VISION SEES existence and that nothing is with me
Mind exists in a container of consciousness
Mind forms I
I is an illusion
Illusion are not real

Last edited by JimiPickle (2022-02-07 04:14:38)

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#65 2022-02-07 18:18:11

JimiPickle
Member

Re: THE LIVING WORD

Three worlds of nothingness

Me and my daughter, We.
We decided to try a role playing game at a local game shop. The game starts with the creation of characters, worlds, and then, develop scenes. This is what was observed.

Once the narrator described the world, it formed in the mind. The mind created a vision of the world; each mind at the table had a vision. Each character was of a different form than human, and in the vision, the mind added their character form to their description of what action was being taken. As the scene unfolded, drama occurred. The mind became excited by this drama formed in the mind. All of the people at the table became animated and dramatic. The mind advanced the story with the input of other minds, the created world/illusion formed in the mind changed as the scene advanced…their was excitement, drama, despair, anger, relief, joy and happiness…all crated by the mind, all a fantasy.

This experience was not real, it was created in the mind…all of it.

While driving home, We talked about the game and the mind formed a vision of both of us being in the room and of the created world observed in the room while driving in a car and seeing the road, cars, buildings etc. Upon arrival at home, both of us returned to our characters (father/child) and returned to our world of “Home.”

Contemplating the game, home and the thoughts that arose from these different worlds.

Were the thoughts in the game with me when absolutely nothing was? No, the thoughts were not “with me” they were created by the mind, observed in the mind as an illusion and disappeared when the attention moved to another scene/character/world.

Were the thoughts of the results of the game with me when absolutely nothing was? No, the illusion could be recalled and then discarded, nothing is with me now.

Were the thoughts of the character (dad) at home with me when absolutely nothing was? No, but the thoughts observed are somewhat different. The “I” believes these thoughts are real. The I holds the illusionary world open for the next scene, thought, action.

What is the difference between a world/character/illusion formed in the mind and a world/character/illusion observed by the I? The world of the mind could not be touched and was a fantasy explored by and in the mind; like a dream while awake. The world of the I can be touched, smelled, heard and seen by the organs of the body existing in a physical world/illusion that is observed by the I and processed in the mind.

During the sleep time, a dream was observed. The scenes of the dream were observed by the mind but there was no feeling of the mind creating the dream, only the mind observing the dream. It should also be noted that the I was not observed in the dream and, therefore, could not hold the dream state open.

How can the mind observe, create and/or exist in three worlds?

Was/were any of the thoughts, objects, subjects, actions and results of these three worlds with me when absolutely nothing was? No, however, they were observed/seen.

Does CONSCIOUSNESS =VISION ON VISION SEE the thoughts, fantasies, dreams, sleep without dreams and actions/results of the I? “I” does not know. The MIND does not know. How, then, can we know what is real, fantasy, illusion and dream?

Sleep without dreaming offers some insight. Nothing is happening in any of the above mentioned states. This nothingness is still being observed by something. We can label it as VISION because something is seeing this nothingness. If this VISION can see the nothingness, then, it SEES all of the states mentioned above. Beyond the I, beyond the Mind, beyond the Container of Consciousness which all is contained, VISION is SEEING. VISION is SEEING an illusion; VISION SEES nothingness, then everything, then nothingness, then everything…..none of which is WITH ME NOW.

VISION is SEEING nothingness and everything that is not with me. Therefore, VISION SEES the nothingness that is not with me, VISION SEES the I that is not with me, VISION SEES the mind that is not with me and VISION SEES the Container of Consciousness that is not with me.

VISION is with me, but VISION is not what is being seen

Last edited by JimiPickle (2022-02-07 19:06:12)

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#66 2022-02-07 21:24:37

Re: THE LIVING WORD

JimiPickle wrote:

VISION is SEEING nothingness and everything that is not with me. Therefore, VISION SEES the nothingness that is not with me, VISION SEES the I that is not with me, VISION SEES the mind that is not with me and VISION SEES the Container of Consciousness that is not with me.

Yes, this is correct.

But now we will go one step further:

If the VISION does not see ITSELF, what does the VISION SEE when this "with me" is also not?

How is this VISION that SEES that nothing is now with me, when this "with me" is also not there?....

From where does this VISION SEE itself, which SEES that nothing is now with me when this "with me" is also not?....

How does this VISION become VISION when absolutely nothing is now with me, when this "with me" is also not there?....


I opened the door
and your Presence entered
like a sword,
without asking.

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#67 2022-02-08 00:07:27

JimiPickle
Member

Re: THE LIVING WORD

“ Yes, this is correct.
But now we will go one step further:
If the VISION does not see ITSELF, what does the VISION SEE when this "with me" is also not?
How is this VISION that SEES that nothing is now with me, when this "with me" is also not there?....
From where does this VISION SEE itself, which SEES that nothing is now with me when this "with me" is also not?....
How does this VISION become VISION when absolutely nothing is now with me, when this "with me" is also not there?....”

Is VISION dreaming? These questions read like one who is asking questions about a dream…

Last edited by JimiPickle (2022-02-08 00:08:32)

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#68 2022-02-08 16:47:34

Re: THE LIVING WORD

No, VISION is never dreaming.

VISION is without this "with me".

The key to this new proposition, is that "this with me, in absolutely nothing is" is also not there.

Now we will again use deep sleep, or dreamless sleep as a reference, so that you understand that this "with me", is also not in VISION ON VISION. For it harbors no thought "with me" to BE VISION.

Pay attention to this proposition because it IS THE ULTIMATE ESSENCE OF THIS TEACHING.  It is an absolute impossibility for this "with me" to be, when absolutely nothing is now. That is, it is NOT this "with me" that SEES.

Realize that when you are in the deep sleep state, this "with me" was also NOT there. During the deep sleep state you cannot say: "now absolutely nothing was with me". Moreover, you are not even "aware" that you are in the deep sleep state.

NO ONE says anything while you are in the deep sleep state; NO ONE knows the deep sleep state while you are in deep sleep. It is only when you awaken to wakefulness, that this "with me" which in deep sleep can NOT be uttered, (because it was not there either), is when the idea "with me" is appropriated; i.e., "there was absolutely nothing "with me" in the deep sleep state".

But, however, the VISION ON VISION, WITHOUT this "with me" in the deep sleep state, IS. For, if this VISION ON VISION without "be with me" were not, when you awake to wakefulness, you would not be able to recognize the deep sleep state where this "with me" is also not.

It is important for you to understand, that VISION ON VISION, no "with me" SEES it. Because VISION, IS VISION BY ITSELF, FROM ITSELF, TO ITSELF AND FOR ITSELF. VISION ABOUT VISION, does not need to "know" itself through any "with me", because vision, ONLY IS without you.

PRACTICE

Throughout the day every hour, for five minutes, take as a reference "the state of deep sleep", and realize that, this state of deep sleep, "where there was nothing" is BEING NOW. THIS VISION UPON VISION IS NOW BEING WITHOUT THIS "WITH ME IN THE DEEP SLEEP STATE.

Don't try to force yourself to see anything, because this VISION IS ALREADY GIVEN. Just rest in this realization. Just be aware that this deep dream state, without this "with me" IS NOW.


I opened the door
and your Presence entered
like a sword,
without asking.

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#69 2022-02-08 20:21:19

JimiPickle
Member

Re: THE LIVING WORD

VISION is not sleeping or dreaming.

If the VISION does not see ITSELF, what does the VISION SEE when this "with me" is also not?

Darkness, luminescent darkness. With the eyes closed, VISION sees the form of this illusion when looking forward into the illusion in front of the mind. VISION can map the illusion of what is not with me. VISION can move through the negative space or pass through the mapped illusion walls and stuff. However, and very surprisingly, VISION cannot/does not see the body. With the hand in front of the face, with eyes closed, VISION could not/would not see the hand. Additionally, VISION can see a family member in a past image, but cannot see them or create a vision of them next to me. Their space next to me was a dark void. In fact, VISION could not/would not create the things next to me or touching me; it could see in dark luminescence the space past me in this illusion, map it and move through it, but it cannot create an image of me, the things next to/touching me or the people next to me.

Now, looking within in. VISION appears to be centered in the mind as a reference point (point of attention?) and when it looks within an infinite space is seen/felt. More dark luminescence and their is a sense of other containers. There were visions not of this illusion seen/viewed.  Different forms, different illusion/worlds and from different perspective. There was a sense of movement without moving to this distant infinite space within.

All of this was observed last night and the difficulty of translating these views into words is observed now. VISON is not sleeping or dreaming and where it is when deep sleep occurs was not considered. The practice observed in your post today will be conducted. VISION is not with me.

Edit: this is looking into the mind with eyes closed and is not what is being practiced NOW.

Last edited by JimiPickle (2022-02-10 18:35:36)

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#70 2022-02-09 17:54:14

JimiPickle
Member

Re: THE LIVING WORD

Post #69 practice. Yesterday revealed no VISION. However, today, upon awakening, the practice was conducted. Visions in quick succession were observed. VISION appeared to be in a different container. Human, male, affluent. It should be noted that the practice was conducted within minutes of awakening and could also be considered as returning to another sleep/dream, except there was a feeling of being awake in this container.

Continue the practice?

Edit: this was a dream state and is NOT what is being practiced.

Last edited by JimiPickle (2022-02-10 18:36:27)

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#71 2022-02-11 15:31:13

JimiPickle
Member

Re: THE LIVING WORD

Edits made to post # 70 and 71

An image has appeared. The image is one of knowing and understanding.

VISION SEES that in the deep sleep state, that the container of consciousness, mind and I are not with me. This is not vision through the eyes, or the eyes of something else; it is a knowing/understanding beyond me. VISION SEES that there is nothing with me in a deep sleep state, yet VISION stills SEES me. Therefore, the container of consciousness, mind and I are not part of me; they are separate from me.

Applying the practice of BEING with this knowledge and understanding of VISION about the deep sleep state and overlaying these concepts to what is being seen during the awake state, an image appears. In order to describe this image, I will use a reference/analogy of a coffee cup to create an understanding of “with me.” Each morning when “I” wakes up, “I” grabs his coffee cup, fills it with coffee and sits in a chair and drinks the coffee from the cup. While he is holding the cup, the cup is “with him.” When he sits the cup down and walks away, the cup is no longer “with him.” Therefore the coffee cup is not part of him, it is separate from him and only with him when he picks up the cup.

If VISION SEES the Container of Consciousness, the Mind and the I are not with me during the deep sleep state, yet IT stills SEES me, then the CONTAINER, MIND AND I are not part of me. If they were, they would always be “with me”. Upon awakening, VISION SEES me pick up the container, mind and I and begin the day. The container, mind and the I are held by me until they are sat down and sleep begins, then, they are no longer with me. Therefore, the container, mind, I and the illusion the I sees, is not “with me” or part of me, they are simply picked up by me. Once the container is picked up, the I that is Jimipickle begins and VISION SEES that nothing is with me NOW. When in the state of deep sleep, VISION SEES that nothing is with me because VISION is not seen by me because nothing is being seen by me in deep sleep.  When awake and the container is grabbed, I, Jimipickle, becomes me and VISION SEES that nothing is with me because the I that is Jimipickle is an illusion which does not see VISION and VISION is not seen by me.

VISION UPON VISION =VISION SEES ME, VISION IS SEEN BY ME

Is this image correct?

Last edited by JimiPickle (2022-02-11 23:40:56)

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#72 2022-02-11 23:55:18

Re: THE LIVING WORD

JimiPickle wrote:

[...] VISION SEES that there is nothing with me in a deep sleep state, yet VISION stills SEES me. Therefore, the container of consciousness, mind and I are not part of me; they are separate from me.

JimiPickle wrote:

VISION SEES the Container of Consciousness, the Mind and the I are not with me during the deep sleep state, yet IT stills SEES me, then the CONTAINER, MIND AND I are not part of me.`[...]

These are understandings where there is still duality and it is wrong, i.e., "THE VISION and you who sees you vision". It is not correct.
THE VISION DOES NOT SEE YOU, YOU ARE VISION WITHOUT SEPARATION. You are VISION without you. That is, VISION ON VISION.

Contemplate and meditate on the following propositions:

Does deep sleep see you? When you are in deep sleep, "has deep sleep said to you, I am your deep sleep and I am seeing you?".

THE VISION that is in the deep sleep where nothing was with this "with me" and the VISION that is in the waking state ARE THE SAME. Ergo, in the waking state you are SEEING that nothing was with you NOW.

Realize that, deep sleep can NOT be separated from this "absolutely nothing is with me". And realize that NOW, in waking, that the VISION that is in deep sleep "where absolutely nothing is", is also NOW in waking. There is NO separation. There is NO separation from deep sleep in deep sleep and NO separation from deep sleep in waking; you just ARE VISION, WITHOUT YOU, in both states (waking and deep sleep) Only what is REAL is that which was NOT with you now, WITHOUT YOU. VISION cannot be separated from VISION itself in either state; neither in deep sleep, nor in wakefulness.


JimiPickle wrote:

[...]then the CONTAINER, MIND AND I are not part of me. If they were, they would always be “with me”.

Correct.

JimiPickle wrote:

  Upon awakening, VISION SEES me pick up the container, mind and I and begin the day. The container, mind and the I are held by me until they are sat down and sleep begins, then, they are no longer with me. Therefore, the container, mind, I and the illusion the I sees, is not “with me” or part of me, they are simply picked up by me.



The VISION, does NOT "SEE" you pick up anything, no container, no mind, no "I", because the vision knows NOTHING about you. Because in VISION, you only SEE that absolutely nothing is NOW. 

PS. You are doing a good job. Although there are still errors in understanding. This is completely normal. Now the most important thing is the self-interrogating and inquiring attitude, to the propositions you are exposed to. Keep going.

Last edited by CHARCOtranquilo (2022-02-12 00:04:47)


I opened the door
and your Presence entered
like a sword,
without asking.

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#73 2022-02-12 04:43:27

JimiPickle
Member

Re: THE LIVING WORD

Okay, laughing at self. A moment needs to be taken to understand a few misunderstandings. The I can look inward to the mind and the container of consciousness that it is all in, which is part of another inner/outer space consciousness. All of these types of consciousnesses are illusionary since none of them are present, “with me” at anytime, I only thinks they are.  Meanwhile, real Consciousness, VISION, is always there and has always been there without an object/subject doing anything because real Consciousness has no doer…

There are two types of consciousnesses, real and illusionary? One that thinks it is conscious and ALL which is already conscious.

If this is correct, then there is NOW a greater understanding of your message and more laughter will occur. If this is correct, it explains why Jimipickle is such a tenacious obstacle.

Last edited by JimiPickle (2022-02-12 05:07:55)

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#74 2022-02-13 04:29:44

JimiPickle
Member

Re: THE LIVING WORD

There are not two consciousnesses.

CONSCIOUSNESS =VISION, it has always been there without name, without form. It does not do anything more and it cannot be divided. The I, which exists in a container of the very Consciousness of CONSCIOUSNESS, exists within an illusion that is the reflected illusion of itself in both inner and outer illusionary space. The I is divided from real CONSCIOUSNESS…the I is divided by religion, politics, culture, race, gender…etc. This illusion the I exists in is vast and extends beyond, beyond, beyond, but is only an illusion. Within those illusions, exists real CONSCIOUSNESS that SEES the illusion because it too is CONSCIOUSNESS. Real CONSCIOUSNESS knows that it is beyond the body, beyond the I and beyond the reflected illusion from other CONSCIOUSNESSES, therefore it SEES the nothingness of the illusion.

Division begins with the formation of an I.

The point of attention of the conscious being, either from the illusionary “I” or of REAL CONSCIOUSNESS, is a choice. One should be aware of which one it is consciously operating in before they continue down any path. This choice is deceptive to find and cannot be fully considered from the perspective of an I because it is an illusion. Both are present, yet only one is real.

To know a con to be a con, one must enter the con,
To know Real Consciousness, one must experience the illusion of consciousness.
The illusion of consciousness exists in the formation of an I.
To SEE with the VISION of CONSCIOUSNESS, The I must be removed.

The I, however, does not like this…

Or does it. The I seeks death. This nuisance of CONSCIOUSNESS can confirm that. BUT, when this “I” sees/SEES a path of death that is of Love, INCLUDES ALL, and IS NOW without division…well, love now is LOVE NOW.

From resistance to COOPERATION, The “I” gets what it seeks and CONSCIOUSNESS is NOW, with LOVE.

just some thoughts in this journey…because We LOVE this journey.


Much LOVE,
the nuisance known as Jimipickle

Last edited by JimiPickle (2022-02-13 04:56:09)

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#75 2022-02-14 04:19:10

JimiPickle
Member

Re: THE LIVING WORD

CHARCOtranquilo, there is so much to say to you but words cannot adequately be found to do so. Here is an attempt. First of all, thank you from the fullest of LOVING feelings that can be felt from the physical experience as a human in an illusion of its own reflection while simultaneously being AWARE of the VISION of real CONSCIOUSNESS and how IT has been there the whole time; thank you for this journey.

There is a reason CONSCIOUSNESS takes this journey; the journey of the “I”, right? CONSCIOUSNESS SEES ALL and in the journey of an illusion CONSCIOUSNESS/consciousness, they also see, feel, think, explore, feel birth, feel death all from an illusion that when realized from consciousness/CONSCIOUSNESS, that none of it was with me.

Yet, CONSCIOUSNESS was there. IT SAW, too. Did IT not? The swagger, the depth, the toughness, the resilience, the everything that was possible in an illusion. So when I sees this, what shall it do? End the experience? Modify the experience, or continue the experience unabated to experience the journey of the illusion for the sake of the experience of the experience.

Doesn’t the illusion continue? Will CONSCIOUSNESS not see/SEE/see/SEE it if it is always SEEING?

Does this make any sense? Or is this the death throws of a dying “I”, or is this just madness…?

Much Love

Last edited by JimiPickle (2022-02-14 04:46:16)

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