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#76 2022-02-25 19:17:03

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

Crystal Dragon wrote:

This life has messed me up so much that short of contact/extraction or somehow finding a high level relationship on Earth, my next biggest wish would simply be to die in my sleep. I can't force myself to be OK out of some sacrificial sense of duty towards a world where all hope is lost and idealism is dead.

Maybe I'll feel differently in time, but it would take a miracle.

I could say so much, but to what end? I genuinely wish you well.


The road appears when you need it.

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#77 2022-02-25 22:23:19

pete
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

Happy wrote:
pete wrote:

But that desire itself is just another part of the matrix, no matter what you happen to dream about.


No, it’s not part of the matrix. It’s part of you... smile

You shape that desire, that dream, that cause to fight for – because this is what you are not. In other words, it's the frontiers you set up that define you. This is a very essential Swaruunian [Edit:] message in my own understanding. This limitation is what you see as the matrix, imposed on you by the world and adopted by yourself to keep yourself within its rules and boundaries. And since you cannot undo an experience you’ve already had, your soul’s trajectory is to expand in insight – life makes you learn and grow. The boundaries can be crossed, however – or expanded upon. And as long as your soul finds its way into life, it will never stop. You will always find ways to learn and grow.

Of course there is death. Without it, there would be no life. smile

Perhaps we use the word matrix in different ways. I’d say that things like desire (or attachment as Yazhi perhaps calls it), as well as hate, pride, etc, are basically the ‘matrix within’, which then shapes the ‘matrix without’. And as long as you identify with these things - with your desire, etc, and take them as your soul, as ‘you’, there will be no freedom, regardless of which density you end up in, or how many psychic powers you end up having, or not. (Of course, I’m using the word ‘you’ figuratively here, I don’t mean you personally.)

In other words, as long as you are not aware that these things are what’s really driving all your actions, you are entirely driven by the matrix… You may believe that you have free will, that you are manifesting your reality, expanding, breaking through limitations, ascending, developing psychic powers.. But none of that changes the fact that you are still entirely driven by your subconscious tendencies, regardless of the D you end up in.

To put it differently, desire, attachment, pride, hate, etc, within are the very things that create the matrix without - all the Ds, so as long as you are in any of the Ds, you are still in the matrix. And with that, the endless loop of suffering and death, even though at some points it might look like you’re winning, because things may be temporarily a bit more comfortable than usual. Won’t last though.

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#78 2022-02-25 22:30:07

pete
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

Robert369 wrote:

This is where I think a conceptual difference occurs for people: Some believe that "life" is so relevant and "ends" at some point, while others understand that neither time nor space nor the current incarnation is actually relevant to achieve the goal that the soul seeks to achieve:

At a soul level, time is not linear and you can incarnate earlier or later from the death of your last incarnation. This means that you can "go in" to prepare things for your next incarnation or to complete a greater goal which currently seems unachievable with something "in the past". Which, of course will only be valid in your timeline - but that's a given anyways, and many other souls will join that to finally "win" this war.

This means that while there may be evil plans, by incarnating over and over again, as needed before or after the last incarnation, and preferably in a position that will allow to prepare something for the final victory, this victory of Starseeds is unavoidable due to this mechanics. This is because the Regressives are not having as much choice in incarnating really due to their inherent frequency limitation.

Of course, all the above is only valid if one is free from mind-control (like karma, temptations, etc. aka "incarnation loop") that influences one's choice for the next incarnation as to not follow up one's original goals. But those who are free from it due not need to fear anything, because they cannot really lose, as at worst they'll be back in another body. Plus, every experience makes us stronger and more experienced for the current ongoings.

I like your enthusiasm re the war.

As for the other part of the topic, I’d like to run something by you - here are some of the beliefs that the New Age (from my perspective) has been selling for decades:
- a soul’s expansion is always progressive (e.g. ‘ascension’) and never reverses towards regressive.
- psychic powers signify that someone is ‘ascending’, or is more awake than others without those powers (e.g. telepathy, control over one’s incarnations, control over time, elements, manifestation, etc.)
- what souls really want is to grow and expand indefinitely (e.g. integration, oneness, etc).

From my perspective, I’d say most of these things are propaganda at best, though more likely just nefarious harvesting indoctrination techniques by various entities.

That is, even if there was some truth to the things above, all of it would still keep you firmly inside the matrix. (I'm using 'you' here figuratively, I don't mean you personally.) It might look like you are getting better at the whole thing because you can control your incarnations, satisfy your needs instantaneously, etc, but from my perspective, none of these things actually get you anywhere near to getting out of the matrix. In fact, with things like psychic powers you are likely to do a lot more (damage) than without them, thus making still more matrix for yourself and others in the process.

What is your perspective on this? Thanks.

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#79 2022-02-25 22:34:25

pete
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

Crystal Dragon wrote:

The way I see it, a 5d physical incarnation provides much more freewill choices, and imposes much less random problems and limitations. A 3d incarnation, we choose certain challenges and factors pre-incarnatively, and then they are imposed on our lives and we have much less choices how to actually move or navigate in 3d, and oftentimes our choices are not clear until we regret them later.

Swaruu didn't have to live a solitary lifestyle through many incarnations; she chose to. She did not have to go on risky time travel missions; she chose to. These were the chosen paths that defined her life and gave it the meaning and purpose she desired, and they were direct choices made within her own incarnations. I'm sure she would have had the opportunity to live a more social life, or choose a different set of missions.

In Taygetan society, all of the basic material needs are met. There is little to no pretense or deception in social and societal interactions and institutions. That doesn't mean everything is perfect, there are still internal and interpersonal dynamics to deal with, but circumstances aren't so much flat out imposed on you as in 3d, where your material needs may or may not be met, and social and societal dynamics are heavily distorted. You pick your own battles in 5d. You are not born into adversity, and it is not imposed upon you. Nobody had to come to Earth, but the Toleka crew chose the experience to learn and grow and serve others.

That is the major difference.

If your goal is to get to 5D, that is more than fine of course. I’m definitely not telling you what to do or not do. Just exchanging perspectives on the points of interest here, that’s all.

Personally, I don’t think there ever really is free will of any kind, anywhere. Only a belief or an illusion of having it, because things might suddenly seem a bit more comfortable than usual. But that usually passes sooner or later and then it’s be back to the usual crap. Basically, I’d say that as long as I’m driven by my subconscious tendencies of attachment, pride, hate, etc, I’m a slave. And it doesn’t matter whether I’m in a 5D space ship or a 3D tank - if hate drives me at some point, I’m liable to do damage at the time. In other words, I’m still making and living entirely within the matrix, no matter the D, no matter the psychic powers, no matter the degree of control I seem to have, or not, over my life at the particular point. And life of a slave is bound to suck and end (usually miserably), no matter the D.

But, I know, sometimes you really just want a vacation… Understandable of course, and there’s no shame in that. Have a good time whenever you do get to 5D. I’m pretty sure you won’t become a total dick like the other ‘emotionless hacks’ up there.

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#80 2022-02-26 17:08:58

Happy
Moderator

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

Grivehn wrote:

PS. I still have no idea how 'quotes' work and it pissed me off again. I guess its my fault for trying to quote a reply which already contains something quoted.


Grivehn,

Whenever you wish to quote from another's post:

When you are logged in, and before you start writing your own post, you find the link "quote" down to the right in that post you wish to quote from. That entire post will then appear in the editor-window where you are supposed to write your own post.

The first code there reads "quote={nick-name}" and the last reads "/quote" (only with square brackets instead of quotemarks).

You then delete everything between those codes, except for the quote you wish to remain in your own post. (If you click on "quote" in this post here, you'll see how I did it with your own words there.)

Then you write your own post either before or after the quote you just put into your own post.



Edit:
You can also put in several quotes in your own post. Each separate quote then needs to start with "quote={nick-name}" and end with "/quote" (in square brackets).

And if the post you wish to quote already contains a quote, you will find this code is already embedded within the text you wish to quote.


When Happy quoted himself, he wrote:

...with his toes, while standing upside-down with one hand on his back and leaning on a scarecrow... big_smile


If you wish to experiment with the formatting - like the bold "Edit" you see above here, you will find the different codes for it on the BBCode-page.


Discuss the message, not the messenger.

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#81 2022-02-27 00:33:02

pete
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

Grivehn wrote:

For once, dont want to bitch about anything, but felt like clearing things up in this conversation, as it confused me a little. Pete, as I see it, without desire, you'd be one of these things:
...

Hi Grivehn, yes, sorry, I meant ‘desire’ as a subconscious tendency that would include attachment, wanting, liking, lust, etc. I’d say desire (along with other subconscious tendencies like hate, compassion, etc) is what creates one’s world, or the matrix.

So then, if desire is what creates the matrix, and you want to leave the matrix, what can you do? Wanting to leave the matrix would be, as you say, desire again. So, that can’t help. Trying to stop actions motivated by desire in order not to generate more matrix (e.g. karma) won’t help either, because that too you can only attempt based on desire/attachment.

Quite simply, if you are born into this world/matrix in any density, you are bound/driven/defined by those subconscious tendencies. They are the matrix, so to speak. So, how do you get out of the matrix then? I’d say that this can happen when the nature of subconscious tendencies is understood well enough. That is, the more you understand their nature, the less power they have to bind/drive/define you.

So, that would mean living your life as you normally do, liking and disliking things, working, fighting, etc, just like everyone else already does. But throughout all that, gradually, you can get to see through all the bullcrap - you can get to understand how those subconscious tendencies flare up, how they stop flaring up, how they grow, how they diminish, how they make you do certain things, and not other things, etc.
 
At some point, when their nature is understood well enough, you realise you no longer need them, because they no longer define you. When you no longer need them, you no longer identify with them. And when you no longer identify with them, they cannot manifest anymore. And then, there would be no more desire, no more hate, no more death, no more pain, etc. Ever. And that means, no more matrix. But, yes, that also means no more life, no more densities, no more source.

Anyway, what is beyond all that, I don’t know, but I aim to find out. And to be clear, that is my perspective, not Taygetan.

If I’m not mistaken, when Swaruus talk about points of attachment, manifesting, etc, I’d think they are also saying that desire/attachment is what actually creates one’s world. But then, that is not new. Various Hindu traditions have been saying that for a long time. And, courtesy of our Taygetan friends, we now know that Hindu traditions have been heavily influenced by the Andromedans from the start.

Interestingly, Hindu traditions have also been saying (as I understand it at least) that each soul/being is divine and that the ultimate goal of a soul is unification/integration with the divine - also known as - source.

To avoid confusion, I don’t think Swaruus ever said anything contrary to everyone being source, and source being everything. Whereas what I’m saying is basically that source is just another part of the matrix and therefore just another dead end if you aim to find a way out of all the death and suffering.

To be blunt, the cosmology that Swaruus have presented so far seems almost entirely Hindu (Andromedan). That concerns me. Granted, different Swaruus have given somewhat different accounts of the cosmology, but it all seems firmly rooted in the Andromedan stuff. It also concerns me that the history databases they are using seem to have GF (aka Andromedan) fingerprints all over.

But, let’s see what a future Swaruu presents. Maybe they will finally break away from the Andromedan stuff and come up with something of their own. Of course, I don’t mean that in an ironic way. I really do look forward to videos about Swaruu XV and seeing how their worldview evolves.

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#82 2022-02-27 12:37:54

Robert369
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

Grivehn wrote:

Im on the opinion we'll all experience the same in time (or outside time, more like) anyway, and we did come from there to begin with. There is a lot to see in the universe(s).

The latter is exactly the reason why the former is incorrect:

Source seeks to make any possible experience, and that means that it attempts to make all the various attention focus points experience something different, though due to our granted free will we can decide (within given parameters) what we wish to experience.

And because no two life experiences are the same anyways due to the vast number of options, there's ample room for free will - if only we remember to make use of it. But it also means that each individual personal advancement process needs to work slightly differently, which is why it must come from within and cannot be "learnt" by outside means.


Helping people to self-empower and liberate themselves, and by that ultimately the whole planet and beyond. See my profile for means to connect.

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#83 2022-02-27 20:45:12

Meridianwoman
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

pete wrote:

Hi Crystal Dragon, Grivehn, Pink Chopper and all,

Your messages are painfully familiar. Even though I think most of us are here just as cannon fodder really, I still wanted to write a message of support. These things help me cope while hurtling towards certain death:

1. calm abiding - a sort of meditation which allows switching off discoursive thought instantly (and the associated worries, regret, etc). What is left instead is silence, calm, and eventually you start to feel energy bubbling up, recharging your batteries, and on ocassion you even end up feeling happy and content for no apparent reason.. Really though, it's just meditation on the breath, candle light, or whatever else helps you calm the thinking mind, which you can then recall whenever needed. Make no mistake though, ultimately this is just repression, so the worries, regret, etc, will come up again at some point and will need working through with shadow work, introspection, wisdom or whatever your preferred weapon of choice happens to be.

2. open-heartedness - as above, except instead of your attention being preoccupied with something neutral at the time (such as breath or candle light), you instead wish someone else good health, happiness, freedom from suffering, etc. In other words, instead of being preoccupied with your problems, you are entirely preoccupied with someone else's wellbeing at that moment, and so have no time to worry about your own problems smile Really though, this only works when the heart "opens" momentarily - it feels like a small supernova exploding in your chest and carrying your good wishes to their recipients, and at the time you can't help but feel alright because that is what you are wishing them in the first place.

3. knowing that all planets, realms, densities, dimensions, etc, will be more or less just as crappy as this one. In other words, a suicide, an honorable death, or not, there is always going to be another matrix wherever you land. I mean just look at GF or even Swaruus - Swaruu of Erra was killed so many times only to finally starve to death and her "soul" entirely lose interest in her. And that's after everything she's done for us... And GF, our 5D counterparts, just look at those bastards.. I certainly have no desire for 5D as it seems it's just another hellhole, only way bigger..

4. A goal - it's good to have a goal, it gives you momentum and keeps you moving even when you feel you have no more energy left to move. At this point, all I want is to destroy each and every matrix. Each and every density. Including the source and whatever other crap happens to lie beyond.

I just wanted to say thank you Pete for sharing this bit of wisdom.  I'm learning so much from the high-level of insight and introspection that are being posted on this forum.

Some people have a talent for expressing themselves in writing, and today I've been reading many of your past comments.

Swaruu.org gives people a platform to explore a deeper  and more meaning journey in LIFE.  (Thank you Gosia and Robert)

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#84 2022-02-28 10:28:25

07wideeyes
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

It's heartening to switch on the computer this morning, and the first thing I come across is appreciation and recognition of the good work that goes on in this forum. Thank you, Meridianwoman!

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#85 2022-02-28 22:32:53

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

Grivehn wrote:
Robert369 wrote:

The latter is exactly the reason why the former is incorrect:

You misunderstood my words again. I merely meant we all came from Source and will return to Source. Of course a zyriad myriad beings scattered across the universe wont experience the very same across their bazillion lifetimes. Vareity is the spice of life, as they say. All of us dont want to be emotionless cyborgs sealed into a tin can or cyberspace, living eternally in hiveminds.

Why would you think I thought that to begin with? big_smile

As a simple addition to Pete. Me wanting to get out of Earth shares similarities to you wanting to get out of 'existence' as it is. I have no right to tell you you're wrong, nor want I. Do what you want, as long as its not imposed on others.

Of course, my belief is that I advocate for more beauty, pleasure, excitement and fun. (Which is almost completely eliminated from Earth in my view now) I think all this can be done right, not only wrong like on this anti-world. And you vote for nihilism and the complete futility and wrongness of individualistic life itself. Thus I'll never agree with you. But, you do you again. I can see your point. I still have hope left that life can be done right. If I cant find a place where its possible, I'll gladly join you into oblivion.

My thoughts exactly.


righteously indignant

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#86 2022-03-01 01:04:43

pete
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

Meridianwoman wrote:

I just wanted to say thank you Pete for sharing this bit of wisdom.  I'm learning so much from the high-level of insight and introspection that are being posted on this forum.

Some people have a talent for expressing themselves in writing, and today I've been reading many of your past comments.

Swaruu.org gives people a platform to explore a deeper  and more meaning journey in LIFE.  (Thank you Gosia and Robert)

Thanks Meridianwoman. Yes, I agree, Gosia and her team have given us a good place to communicate and exchange views.

For that reason, it's a matter of courtesy towards our hosts to point out when my own perspective differs from the information presented by the Taygetans and I can only hope I’m managing to do that so as not to detract others who are here primarily for the Taygetan content.

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#87 2022-03-01 01:14:20

pete
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

Grivehn wrote:

...
As a simple addition to Pete. Me wanting to get out of Earth shares similarities to you wanting to get out of 'existence' as it is. I have no right to tell you you're wrong, nor want I. Do what you want, as long as its not imposed on others.

Of course, my belief is that I advocate for more beauty, pleasure, excitement and fun. (Which is almost completely eliminated from Earth in my view now) I think all this can be done right, not only wrong like on this anti-world. And you vote for nihilism and the complete futility and wrongness of individualistic life itself. Thus I'll never agree with you. But, you do you again. I can see your point. I still have hope left that life can be done right. If I cant find a place where its possible, I'll gladly join you into oblivion.

Yes, I agree, one’s own freedom shouldn’t come at the expense of someone else’s freedom.

Thanks for raising the issue of non-existence / nihilism / oblivion - it’s an important one if the aim is complete freedom from the matrix. While I used to assume that the only way out of ‘existence’ would be ‘non-existence’, now it seems ‘non-existence’ is also a part of the matrix. Because it too is something that can be desired - it too can become a point of attachment.

In fact, when I was researching the traditions of the Indian subcontinent, they had several movements dedicated to nihilism (as well as many other movements). In short, it seems those who desire ‘non-existence’ would after death end up on a plane where all mental capacities are suspended for “a time”.

They would then experience exactly what they desired - nothing at all, however, the ‘non-experiencing’ would only last for “a time” that’s basically equivalent to the force of the desire to experience nothingness. Once the force of that desire is exhausted though, you would then ‘die’ from that plane and end up on some other plane where your mental capacities and experiencing would resume. In other words, you’re still not out of the matrix.

So basically, for complete freedom from the matrix, it looks like it’s important to understand the drawbacks of the subconscious tendency of desire itself, regardless of what happens to be desired - existence, non-existence, the source, void, or whatever else can become a point of attachment.

That doesn’t mean trying to stop desire/attachment, because that can’t be done by brute force (a.k.a. more desire). But, when its nature is thoroughly understood, then desire would stop of its own accord. Until then, I agree that it’s good to appreciate beauty.

For me, the highest beauty are the subconscious tendencies of kindness, compassion, patience, respect, wisdom, perseverance, etc. Because they provide a good contrast to seeing the drawbacks of other subconscious tendencies like desire, hate, pride, worry, regret, etc. And they also oftentimes feel pretty good smile

The best thing though is that kindness, compassion, etc, can spring up at any time, regardless of who or where you are. As in, we all have these subconscious tendencies and they are “free” to use at any time. The more their value is appreciated, the more easily they seem to spring up. A kind wish for someone’s health, or just a kind word - it’s all free, easy, and guaranteed to make life a bit more bearable at the time.

Some actually say that kindness, compassion, etc, can be developed to such strong degrees that you could experience pure bliss for aeons and aeons due to their strength. Of course, some say that there are things even better than pure bliss. And so on. I think it’s important to experience all these things for oneself so that at some point you can honestly say and just know that you are simply not interested anymore in anything whatsoever that the matrix has to offer.

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#88 2022-03-01 11:37:27

Genoveva
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

pete wrote:
Grivehn wrote:

...
As a simple addition to Pete. Me wanting to get out of Earth shares similarities to you wanting to get out of 'existence' as it is. I have no right to tell you you're wrong, nor want I. Do what you want, as long as its not imposed on others.

Of course, my belief is that I advocate for more beauty, pleasure, excitement and fun. (Which is almost completely eliminated from Earth in my view now) I think all this can be done right, not only wrong like on this anti-world. And you vote for nihilism and the complete futility and wrongness of individualistic life itself. Thus I'll never agree with you. But, you do you again. I can see your point. I still have hope left that life can be done right. If I cant find a place where its possible, I'll gladly join you into oblivion.

Yes, I agree, one’s own freedom shouldn’t come at the expense of someone else’s freedom.

Thanks for raising the issue of non-existence / nihilism / oblivion - it’s an important one if the aim is complete freedom from the matrix. While I used to assume that the only way out of ‘existence’ would be ‘non-existence’, now it seems ‘non-existence’ is also a part of the matrix. Because it too is something that can be desired - it too can become a point of attachment.

In fact, when I was researching the traditions of the Indian subcontinent, they had several movements dedicated to nihilism (as well as many other movements). In short, it seems those who desire ‘non-existence’ would after death end up on a plane where all mental capacities are suspended for “a time”.

They would then experience exactly what they desired - nothing at all, however, the ‘non-experiencing’ would only last for “a time” that’s basically equivalent to the force of the desire to experience nothingness. Once the force of that desire is exhausted though, you would then ‘die’ from that plane and end up on some other plane where your mental capacities and experiencing would resume. In other words, you’re still not out of the matrix.

So basically, for complete freedom from the matrix, it looks like it’s important to understand the drawbacks of the subconscious tendency of desire itself, regardless of what happens to be desired - existence, non-existence, the source, void, or whatever else can become a point of attachment.

That doesn’t mean trying to stop desire/attachment, because that can’t be done by brute force (a.k.a. more desire). But, when its nature is thoroughly understood, then desire would stop of its own accord. Until then, I agree that it’s good to appreciate beauty.

For me, the highest beauty are the subconscious tendencies of kindness, compassion, patience, respect, wisdom, perseverance, etc. Because they provide a good contrast to seeing the drawbacks of other subconscious tendencies like desire, hate, pride, worry, regret, etc. And they also oftentimes feel pretty good smile

The best thing though is that kindness, compassion, etc, can spring up at any time, regardless of who or where you are. As in, we all have these subconscious tendencies and they are “free” to use at any time. The more their value is appreciated, the more easily they seem to spring up. A kind wish for someone’s health, or just a kind word - it’s all free, easy, and guaranteed to make life a bit more bearable at the time.

Some actually say that kindness, compassion, etc, can be developed to such strong degrees that you could experience pure bliss for aeons and aeons due to their strength. Of course, some say that there are things even better than pure bliss. And so on. I think it’s important to experience all these things for oneself so that at some point you can honestly say and just know that you are simply not interested anymore in anything whatsoever that the matrix has to offer.


@pete,  thank you for your posting. This is the most insightful analysis of spiritual evolution I have ever seen.


In reality, the only thing that will never change is the fact that almost everything is going to change, to a greater or to a lesser degree. (Gregorian Bivolaru)

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#89 2022-03-01 15:48:20

Brahman
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

Pete,
I don't know how familiar you are with eastern philosophy (not religion) but I've been involved for years and have sifted out what I think has helped me with my consciousness. For example, I can stop my desires whenever I want and I can not be influenced by my mind based on the experience I have of these teachings. And I can still pretend to participate in a seemingly illusory universe as a "gamer". Illusory, not because it doesn't exist, but because it is consciousness, as are we. Only it exists, I think.


Infinite consciousness bliss.

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#90 2022-03-02 07:40:45

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

The idea of nothing mattering and giving up desires doesn't inspire or comfort me at all. The idea of having the time and space in infinity to fulfill all of my desires before merging back with source is much more fitting to me. My indignation and rebellion against all of the wrongness, the nihilism, and the arbitrary suffering is all that keeps me going, because I know that I am right.


righteously indignant

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#91 2022-03-02 17:16:38

lostsole
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

D

Last edited by lostsole (2022-03-06 08:36:12)

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#92 2022-03-02 17:46:35

Meridianwoman
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

Thank you for this advice which is helpful to everyone... even people who are eating healthy!
Every little thing we put in our mouths now, needs to be questioned.  The nanobots and who-knows-what-else may be added to packaged foods.
Stay strong and help those who help themselves.

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#93 2022-03-02 20:09:38

lostsole
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

Thank you Meridianwoman, I appreciate your comment also. I do feel strongly, that we should not judge too harshly how we perceive the outer world to be, until we know our inner world is screwed on right with no/low filters coloring things wrongly.

Why do you call yourself Meridianwoman? Are you living near Boise, Idaho by chance, in Meridian? I live in Idaho, USA, is why I ask.

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#94 2022-03-02 21:05:50

Meridianwoman
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

You're right LostSole about how it's easy to harshly judging the outer world.  I guess the sentence about ingesting nanobots was a little on the paranoid side.  That's spreading unnecessary fear.

I might change my user name 'meridianwoman'.  It's been an easy unique user name to remember, but it doesn't have significance.  Just sounds cool.  My name is Donna.
I had a dream at night with the words meridian woman (maybe 25 years ago,) and I thought I'd use it for a user name.

I like your avatar name Lost Sole.  Sole also means the bottom or the sole of a shoe; like broken shoe.  I sometimes feel like a broken shoe. but much less so now that I'm older and got more common sense now (I hope so, anyway.)

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#95 2022-03-02 21:15:56

lostsole
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

I don't think you were spreading fear about nanobots. Everyone at this forum knows they are in everything now days, at least the graphene oxide. Thus in part my big post a couple months back about how screwed we might be from the nano materials. It's also the same post covering how awful my mother's death was post papaya. I was very depressed at the time for obvious reasons.

Anyway...

Well, so you don't live in Meridian, but you have my wife's exact name, even spelled the same, Donna! : ) Odd..

Regardless, it's a cool "dreamy" avatar name whether you keep it or not.

My avatar does mean the sole of a shoe, but truth is, I've been down so many, many... divergent spiritual paths over the last twenty years and have not found anything conclusive, that indeed, I am a lost "soul".

Great to meet you and yes, you seem to have a lot of common sense!

Oh, and my name is Deven.

Last edited by lostsole (2022-03-02 21:17:24)

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#96 2022-03-03 00:47:48

pete
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

Genoveva wrote:

@pete,  thank you for your posting. This is the most insightful analysis of spiritual evolution I have ever seen.

Thanks, Genoveva. I look to your posts for courage in the face of everything that gets thrown at us.

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#97 2022-03-03 00:55:02

pete
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

Brahman wrote:

Pete,
I don't know how familiar you are with eastern philosophy (not religion) but I've been involved for years and have sifted out what I think has helped me with my consciousness. For example, I can stop my desires whenever I want and I can not be influenced by my mind based on the experience I have of these teachings. And I can still pretend to participate in a seemingly illusory universe as a "gamer". Illusory, not because it doesn't exist, but because it is consciousness, as are we. Only it exists, I think.

I wouldn’t say I’m any sort of an expert, but yeah, many of those old Hindu, Jain and Buddhist texts are a treasure and still quite relatable.

I’d like to consider a bit how to respond regarding stopping desire, so will address here the other good topics you raise. Please don’t take the following as any sort of criticism. I’m just sharing my perspective.

Regarding illusion, I realise it is often used as a metaphor in Eastern traditions to illustrate and explain things. However, I also find it is often taken out of context (I’m not saying that you are), such as when some declare that entire life is an illusion or a game. I strongly disagree with that, which is why I strongly disagree with GF when they say that suffering of people in 3D doesn’t matter because 3D life is just a game.

I mean, if suffering is experienced, it’s not an illusion and certainly not a game. The perceived reason for suffering, or the situation in which suffering happens, may indeed be described as illusory by some, but that does not make the experience of suffering any less real. So, I think here I agree with Swaruus when they object to how GF sees our experiences in 3D.

In fact, I would extend the same reality to pain, hate, desire, kindness, etc, and say that there is no difference between the experience of desire (or hate, fear, etc) in 3D or 5D, 7D or whatever. The objects of desire may be different, but the same subconscious tendency is being experienced. That is why I entirely disagree with GF when they say that 3D lives are just a game. There is absolutely no difference between 3D and 5D, as far as the experience of subconscious tendencies is concerned at least.

Regarding consciousness being the only thing existing, or being everything. I realize that many Hindu traditions agree on that. Swaruus generally seem to say the same thing. I find Buddhist and Jain texts would differ though - consciousness for them would be just another one of those things you could get attached to, or basically just another point of attachment, or a “subconscious tendency” as I’d call it. That’s why a godhead, creator, source, etc, seem to play no part in those tradition, other than to dismiss as just another belief-system rather than direct knowledge.

Of course, saying that desire, consciousness, or kindness are just subconscious tendencies does not mean that they are illusions or worthless. On the contrary, they are experienced, and thus, very real (I'd say at least), regardless of whether they are experienced in 3, 5, or whatever D.

Similarly, saying that they are not worth attaching to (or seeing that freedom from them is preferrable to attachment to them) does not mean that life is pointless and that nothing matters. On the contrary, every single experience starts to matter, regardless of whether it is an experience of desire, consciousness, respect, hate, despair, etc.

I mean, if your goal is complete freedom, and you think you could get there by understanding the nature of these experiences, then every single moment becomes incredibly valuable because it presents an opportunity to understand these things deeper. The more you understand, the more freedom you gain. Life for the sake of understanding is worth living, I find. And if there is a bit of compassion, kindness, calm, etc, along the way, it could also be a fairly pleasant one.

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#98 2022-03-03 02:57:16

Brahman
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

pete wrote:
Brahman wrote:

Pete,
I don't know how familiar you are with eastern philosophy (not religion) but I've been involved for years and have sifted out what I think has helped me with my consciousness. For example, I can stop my desires whenever I want and I can not be influenced by my mind based on the experience I have of these teachings. And I can still pretend to participate in a seemingly illusory universe as a "gamer". Illusory, not because it doesn't exist, but because it is consciousness, as are we. Only it exists, I think.

I wouldn’t say I’m any sort of an expert, but yeah, many of those old Hindu, Jain and Buddhist texts are a treasure and still quite relatable.

I’d like to consider a bit how to respond regarding stopping desire, so will address here the other good topics you raise. Please don’t take the following as any sort of criticism. I’m just sharing my perspective.

Regarding illusion, I realise it is often used as a metaphor in Eastern traditions to illustrate and explain things. However, I also find it is often taken out of context (I’m not saying that you are), such as when some declare that entire life is an illusion or a game. I strongly disagree with that, which is why I strongly disagree with GF when they say that suffering of people in 3D doesn’t matter because 3D life is just a game.

I mean, if suffering is experienced, it’s not an illusion and certainly not a game. The perceived reason for suffering, or the situation in which suffering happens, may indeed be described as illusory by some, but that does not make the experience of suffering any less real. So, I think here I agree with Swaruus when they object to how GF sees our experiences in 3D.

In fact, I would extend the same reality to pain, hate, desire, kindness, etc, and say that there is no difference between the experience of desire (or hate, fear, etc) in 3D or 5D, 7D or whatever. The objects of desire may be different, but the same subconscious tendency is being experienced. That is why I entirely disagree with GF when they say that 3D lives are just a game. There is absolutely no difference between 3D and 5D, as far as the experience of subconscious tendencies is concerned at least.

Regarding consciousness being the only thing existing, or being everything. I realize that many Hindu traditions agree on that. Swaruus generally seem to say the same thing. I find Buddhist and Jain texts would differ though - consciousness for them would be just another one of those things you could get attached to, or basically just another point of attachment, or a “subconscious tendency” as I’d call it. That’s why a godhead, creator, source, etc, seem to play no part in those tradition, other than to dismiss as just another belief-system rather than direct knowledge.

Of course, saying that desire, consciousness, or kindness are just subconscious tendencies does not mean that they are illusions or worthless. On the contrary, they are experienced, and thus, very real (I'd say at least), regardless of whether they are experienced in 3, 5, or whatever D.

Similarly, saying that they are not worth attaching to (or seeing that freedom from them is preferrable to attachment to them) does not mean that life is pointless and that nothing matters. On the contrary, every single experience starts to matter, regardless of whether it is an experience of desire, consciousness, respect, hate, despair, etc.

I mean, if your goal is complete freedom, and you think you could get there by understanding the nature of these experiences, then every single moment becomes incredibly valuable because it presents an opportunity to understand these things deeper. The more you understand, the more freedom you gain. Life for the sake of understanding is worth living, I find. And if there is a bit of compassion, kindness, calm, etc, along the way, it could also be a fairly pleasant one.


Actually my wish is that there should be no suffering. And that is not possible as long as there is a dual universe. Duality divides everything into good and evil, happiness and suffering, etc. Indivi-duality contains duality. No matter how much experience we have gathered in duality, in the end everything dissolves/vanishes into non-duality, i.e. the Source without individuality. In this sense I find no use for suffering and these "games" that are played. But it's up to each individual to decide what they want to experience.


Infinite consciousness bliss.

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#99 2022-03-03 03:01:48

Robert369
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

Brahman wrote:

Actually my wish is that there should be no suffering.

Actually, "suffering" is individual and as long as any kind of duality exists it is part of the existence, meaning that it only fully ends once back at Source again.

Example 1: Ask a meat eating Draco and the Human he intends to eat about "life without suffering". Either one suffers from starvation or the other from getting eaten.

Example 2: Love will kill low frequency beings, while low frequency will make loving beings suffer. These just cannot co-exist without suffering, but both frequency levels exist thanks to duality.

Obviously, these kind of examples can be a expanded across all areas of life and beyond.


Helping people to self-empower and liberate themselves, and by that ultimately the whole planet and beyond. See my profile for means to connect.

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#100 2022-03-03 03:11:05

Brahman
Member

Re: DESIRE OF EXTRACTION

Robert369 wrote:
Brahman wrote:

Actually my wish is that there should be no suffering.

Actually, "suffering" is individual and as long as any kind of duality exists it is part of the existence, meaning that it only fully ends once back at Source again.

Example 1: Ask a meat eating Draco and the Human he intends to eat about "life without suffering". Either one suffers from starvation or the other from getting eaten.

Example 2: Love will kill low frequency beings, while low frequency will make loving beings suffer. These just cannot co-exist without suffering, but both frequency levels exist thanks to duality.

Obviously, these kind of examples can be a expanded across all areas of life and beyond.


Why is there no suffering in the higher levels as in 3D? How do they exist without suffering?


Infinite consciousness bliss.

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