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#51 2022-03-11 11:19:15

Greta
Banned

Re: Question on Karistus

Seeker_Ivy wrote:

There is no way to justify the Karistus' desire to be seen as angels to being 'advanced,' when they can settle for being teachers without the worshiping aspect, (something the Taygetans understand).

I would discern between "they want to be seen as angels" and "they play the role of angels".
Also, how can we know how they want to be seen?
Does anyone talk to them here?

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#52 2022-03-11 11:22:59

Re: Question on Karistus

To be a servant doesn't mean stagnation. In the contrary.  The constellation master - servant is full of potential. 

I remember past life, when I was a great man and hold much power. As a young boy I had to serve. Do the lowest duties, work, obey, pray and so on. I had to learn to do my best on whatsoever position I am.

To be a servant, opens a lot of potential and opportunities to grow and gain strength. It is not so black and white.  As a servant, you can focus on your jobs, your duties, you don't bear responsibility, you are not in charge, that gives you a kind of freedom. It is not a contradiction.

Most humans don't want to bear responsibility. They fear it. They want to  live their personal lifes, without worries. They are glad if greater ones are in charge of the bigger issues.

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#53 2022-03-11 11:26:23

Robert369
Member

Re: Question on Karistus

Seeker_Ivy wrote:

And let's not even add their claim that this planet/star system belongs to them, that's another can of worms that even the Taygetans disagree with, (as it's those that live on a planet who 'own' it).

Yeh, that's a nice can of worms there, on which I like to add the next one of them claiming that they are the "original Lyrans". Not only would that combined with my above explanations about "worshiping" in my view be a rather poor development result, which also proves how self-limiting such way of life is for personal growth.

But I also would like to go into their claim that they would be the "original Lyran race", for which it should be more than clear that "a race" is not as static as people are taught, because it is souls that decide to use a certain avatar to have a certain experience or mission.

This is because a sufficiently evolved souls it not limited in the choice of one's incarnation avatar, and especially us here on Earth - after having read and understood the Taygetan content - should be well aware that a Human body is merely a "biosuit", and you never know who is inside.

It is a well-known fact in this community that almost all "Humans" in fact are Starseeds of whatever fashion, and many of them are coming from way past 6D. Which makes sense if one wants to save the planet, Humanity, and ultimately the whole galaxy, because it is well-known where 5-6D methods have lead our planet and galaxy to.

Thus, claiming to be the "master race" of others because of them using an avatar from the Lyran lineage is nonsensical and shows how lacking their understandings area, as that only applies a purely physical race trait to a being and utterly ignores who's inside. And it is especially the more advanced beings who can freely choose which vessel to use for incarnation.

At least for myself, I am will not accept such self-proclaimed "you are part of us" and "we are your origins, thus worship us!", because despite using a Human biosuit I am not and I wouldn't ever want to be. Fact is that (at our lower densities) every individual soul is right that: An individual. No matter what biosuit (s)he uses.

Not that their claim of being the Lyran origins has any evidence, meaning that we Humans could claim the very same towards them - and in fact, this sounds almost like something that certain galactic powers would invent to try and gain control over the Lyran races...


Helping people to self-empower and liberate themselves, and by that ultimately the whole planet and beyond. See my profile for means to connect.

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#54 2022-03-11 11:34:30

Robert369
Member

Re: Question on Karistus

Warrior Bishop wrote:

To be a servant doesn't mean stagnation. In the contrary.  The constellation master - servant is full of potential. 

I remember past life, when I was a great man and hold much power. As a young boy I had to serve. Do the lowest duties, work, obey, pray and so on. I had to learn to do my best on whatsoever position I am.

To be a servant, opens a lot of potential and opportunities to grow and gain strength. It is not so black and white.  As a servant, you can focus on your jobs, your duties, you don't bear responsibility, you are not in charge, that gives you a kind of freedom. It is not a contradiction.

Most humans don't want to bear responsibility. They fear it. They want to  live their personal lifes, without worries. They are glad if greater ones are in charge of the bigger issues.

You can be a trainee, pupil or apprentice of a teacher without being in a master/slave and god/worshiper setting, and it will allow for much more personal growth in both. Also, being worshiped more often than not implies own stagnation as well, because in a healthy teacher-apprentice environment both are equally learning.

And you just named the main limiting factor yourself in the above: Having to go through a certain path of learning already is a limitation. Because many children are born already advanced and thus do not need the imposed path, but instead should be able to seek out to learn that which they actually need.

No fixed structure will ever be able to allow optimal personal growth of an individual, because it imposes a systemic indoctrination instead of allowing free choice. Which is exactly that the Taygetans have learnt, and thus allow each child to learn that which they want - because only the child itself knows what it needs next.

This again goes back to the understanding of a soul's path, which is utmost individual, and any kind of "learning imposition" will automatically lead away from the optimal outcome. Authority should never limit or impose, but expand and enable - otherwise it is not "authority" but "tyranny".


Helping people to self-empower and liberate themselves, and by that ultimately the whole planet and beyond. See my profile for means to connect.

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#55 2022-03-11 11:39:24

Greta
Banned

Re: Question on Karistus

Warrior Bishop wrote:

To be a servant doesn't mean stagnation. In the contrary.  The constellation master - servant is full of potential.

I also think you can learn a lot and such relationship is mutually benefitial. And once the "worship" is voluntary then all is as it should be even from this lower perspective.

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#56 2022-03-11 12:00:56

Robert369
Member

Re: Question on Karistus

Greta wrote:
Warrior Bishop wrote:

To be a servant doesn't mean stagnation. In the contrary.  The constellation master - servant is full of potential.

I also think you can learn a lot and such relationship is mutually benefitial. And once the "worship" is voluntary then all is as it should be even from this lower perspective.

I agree that for less developed beings who truly need to start with the very basics, such guidance surely can be of help. At least if the desire for such is coming from the apprentice and not imposed on them, e.g. by getting told what general area must be learnt (as is done by the enforced Earth miseducation system).

But as explained above, beyond a certain point this becomes obsolete because the individual needs to chose what it needs to learn next according to their soul's past experiences, meaning that then a self-chosen path is required for further personal assistance.

This, on the other hand also means that imposing a continuation of a master-slave relation will be detrimental to the personal growth, not only of the apprentice but also the teacher. This already is a given because learning that impositions against the (free and not mind-controlled!!) will of others already is a major part of personal growth.


Helping people to self-empower and liberate themselves, and by that ultimately the whole planet and beyond. See my profile for means to connect.

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#57 2022-03-11 15:58:46

Seeker_Ivy
Banned

Re: Question on Karistus

They WANT to be seen as angels and we know this from Yazhi, in the chat about Karistus, here is an excerpt:

Yazhi: "Karistus are mostly 6D people. As I have said before, whatever is in a higher density will have its mirrors and equivalents in all lower densities. They appear with wings because they like to be seen as angels, the concept of angel on Earth partially comes from them."

Transcript Link: https://www.swaruu.org/transcripts/kari … -of-temmer


Greta wrote:
Seeker_Ivy wrote:

There is no way to justify the Karistus' desire to be seen as angels to being 'advanced,' when they can settle for being teachers without the worshiping aspect, (something the Taygetans understand).

I would discern between "they want to be seen as angels" and "they play the role of angels".
Also, how can we know how they want to be seen?
Does anyone talk to them here?

Last edited by Seeker_Ivy (2022-03-11 16:03:52)


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#58 2022-03-11 17:40:46

Re: Question on Karistus

Seeker_Ivy wrote:

They WANT to be seen as angels and we know this from Yazhi, in the chat about Karistus, here is an excerpt:

Yazhi: "Karistus are mostly 6D people. As I have said before, whatever is in a higher density will have its mirrors and equivalents in all lower densities. They appear with wings because they like to be seen as angels, the concept of angel on Earth partially comes from them."

Transcript Link: https://www.swaruu.org/transcripts/kari … -of-temmer


Greta wrote:
Seeker_Ivy wrote:

There is no way to justify the Karistus' desire to be seen as angels to being 'advanced,' when they can settle for being teachers without the worshiping aspect, (something the Taygetans understand).

I would discern between "they want to be seen as angels" and "they play the role of angels".
Also, how can we know how they want to be seen?
Does anyone talk to them here?

Is it terrible that they want to be seen as angels? They offer great comfort and inspiration to all kinds of people, all over the world. They don't harm anyone in doing so. I've heard their singing before. It's the most beautiful sound I've ever heard.


The road appears when you need it.

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#59 2022-03-11 17:43:49

Vanessa
Banned

Re: Question on Karistus

crystallinemister wrote:
Seeker_Ivy wrote:

They WANT to be seen as angels and we know this from Yazhi, in the chat about Karistus, here is an excerpt:

Yazhi: "Karistus are mostly 6D people. As I have said before, whatever is in a higher density will have its mirrors and equivalents in all lower densities. They appear with wings because they like to be seen as angels, the concept of angel on Earth partially comes from them."

Transcript Link: https://www.swaruu.org/transcripts/kari … -of-temmer


Greta wrote:

I would discern between "they want to be seen as angels" and "they play the role of angels".
Also, how can we know how they want to be seen?
Does anyone talk to them here?

Is it terrible that they want to be seen as angels? They offer great comfort and inspiration to all kinds of people, all over the world. They don't harm anyone in doing so. I've heard their singing before. It's the most beautiful sound I've ever heard.

Can you tell more, where can we hear them singing?
And do they contact people? I would love to have a Karistus guide.

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#60 2022-03-11 19:11:18

Re: Question on Karistus

Vanessa wrote:

And do they contact people? I would love to have a Karistus guide.

They appear to people. In a lot of different forms. Aside from contacting their incarnates on the ground, I don't know about other contacts.

When I heard them singing, it was like a whisper and I heard the most beautifully superhuman sounding choir. I was just sitting alone in my house when it happened and I'd been feeling scared and when it happened, I felt so loved and so grateful.


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#61 2022-03-11 19:44:32

Robert369
Member

Re: Question on Karistus

crystallinemister wrote:

When I heard them singing, it was like a whisper and I heard the most beautifully superhuman sounding choir. I was just sitting alone in my house when it happened and I'd been feeling scared and when it happened, I felt so loved and so grateful.

Interesting, but hearing "someone" singing while possibly seeing whatever entity does not automatically make it Karistus - especially since many entities play games with Humans.

How can you be sure that it was truly a Karistus that you describe here ?


Helping people to self-empower and liberate themselves, and by that ultimately the whole planet and beyond. See my profile for means to connect.

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#62 2022-03-11 20:22:55

Vanessa
Banned

Re: Question on Karistus

crystallinemister wrote:
Vanessa wrote:

And do they contact people? I would love to have a Karistus guide.

They appear to people. In a lot of different forms. Aside from contacting their incarnates on the ground, I don't know about other contacts.

Interestingly Elena's Danaan book Gift from the stars says:
They are now far from 3D incarnation vibratory states and remain in 6D
One has to chose what to believe.

Last edited by Vanessa (2022-03-11 20:23:41)

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#63 2022-03-11 20:31:08

Robert369
Member

Re: Question on Karistus

Vanessa wrote:

Interestingly Elena's Danaan book Gift from the stars says:
They are now far from 3D incarnation vibratory states and remain in 6D
One has to chose what to believe.

That's an easy choice really, if using own discernment or this info:

ED has been debunked as a disinformation and badmouthing agent of the content if the real Taygetans that are covered in this place. This spreading of nonsense by ED along with direct insults of Gosia, Swaruu and the Taygetans here lead to her and her content being a non-topic here. It is requested to respect that.


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#64 2022-03-11 20:47:25

Vanessa
Banned

Re: Question on Karistus

Robert369 wrote:
Vanessa wrote:

Interestingly Elena's Danaan book Gift from the stars says:
They are now far from 3D incarnation vibratory states and remain in 6D
One has to chose what to believe.

That's an easy choice really, if using own discernment or this info:

ED has been debunked as a disinformation and badmouthing agent of the content if the real Taygetans that are covered in this place. This spreading of nonsense by ED along with direct insults of Gosia, Swaruu and the Taygetans here lead to her and her content being a non-topic here. It is requested to respect that.

I do not say I trust her but I wonder who debunked her? What I mean info she or Gosia conveys cannot be anyhow verified.

Last edited by Vanessa (2022-03-11 21:01:48)

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#65 2022-03-11 21:07:05

Robert369
Member

Re: Question on Karistus

Vanessa wrote:

I do not say I trust her but I wonder who debunked her? What I mean info she or Gosia conveys cannot be anyhow verified.

Please use the search function on "Elena", "Danaan" or "ED" on the forum to read up on this.


Helping people to self-empower and liberate themselves, and by that ultimately the whole planet and beyond. See my profile for means to connect.

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#66 2022-03-11 21:22:57

Vanessa
Banned

Re: Question on Karistus

Robert369 wrote:
Vanessa wrote:

I do not say I trust her but I wonder who debunked her? What I mean info she or Gosia conveys cannot be anyhow verified.

Please use the search function on "Elena", "Danaan" or "ED" on the forum to read up on this.

I just did and I can see she is not welcome here. But like I said, impossible to debunk her. Same applies on ED - she cannot debunk anything Gosia says.
We do not know who these ladies talk to and if the intel is true or not.
It is about discernment and logic that must be applied in any case.
But I understand now Gosia does not want Dannan's content to be discussed here.

Last edited by Vanessa (2022-03-11 21:55:42)

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#67 2022-03-11 22:13:29

Re: Question on Karistus

Robert369 wrote:
crystallinemister wrote:

When I heard them singing, it was like a whisper and I heard the most beautifully superhuman sounding choir. I was just sitting alone in my house when it happened and I'd been feeling scared and when it happened, I felt so loved and so grateful.

Interesting, but hearing "someone" singing while possibly seeing whatever entity does not automatically make it Karistus - especially since many entities play games with Humans.

How can you be sure that it was truly a Karistus that you describe here ?

Is it impossible that anyone but you had a real true experience that meant something to them? There's nothing I could do to convince you and that's not why I shared my experience. Why are you so intent on making everything horrible?


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#68 2022-03-11 22:33:21

Robert369
Member

Re: Question on Karistus

crystallinemister wrote:
Robert369 wrote:
crystallinemister wrote:

When I heard them singing, it was like a whisper and I heard the most beautifully superhuman sounding choir. I was just sitting alone in my house when it happened and I'd been feeling scared and when it happened, I felt so loved and so grateful.

Interesting, but hearing "someone" singing while possibly seeing whatever entity does not automatically make it Karistus - especially since many entities play games with Humans.

How can you be sure that it was truly a Karistus that you describe here ?

Is it impossible that anyone but you had a real true experience that meant something to them? There's nothing I could do to convince you and that's not why I shared my experience. Why are you so intent on making everything horrible?

Sorry to see you taking my simple question this way, but I simply asked "How can you be sure ?" and not for "proof" or any of those silly things that obviously cannot work for such a topic. Thus, a simple reply via e.g. inner knowing, how you derive this conclusion, or the like without overreacting in a triggered manner would cover that nicely, and easily explain it to all of us. Or, simply explaining that you are not intending to share this, which would be fine as well.

Last edited by Robert369 (2022-03-11 23:21:58)


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#69 2022-03-11 23:11:09

Seeker_Ivy
Banned

Re: Question on Karistus

I never said it was terrible that they want to be seen as angels, but it goes to question just how evolved they are if they want to participate and perpetuate a term that denotes separation of hierarchy between beings i.e angels vs. humans. Taygetans never describe themselves as being superior, but often say they are just more people who have learned more than the people on Earth. And that is miles apart from labeling themselves as angels or deities, yet the Karistus want and enjoy being seen as superior, which is where the question of their advancement comes into play; as there is no need to make this claim for truly advanced beings, they know their level of awareness without lofty labels.


crystallinemister wrote:
Seeker_Ivy wrote:

They WANT to be seen as angels and we know this from Yazhi, in the chat about Karistus, here is an excerpt:

Yazhi: "Karistus are mostly 6D people. As I have said before, whatever is in a higher density will have its mirrors and equivalents in all lower densities. They appear with wings because they like to be seen as angels, the concept of angel on Earth partially comes from them."

Transcript Link: https://www.swaruu.org/transcripts/kari … -of-temmer


Greta wrote:

I would discern between "they want to be seen as angels" and "they play the role of angels".
Also, how can we know how they want to be seen?
Does anyone talk to them here?

Is it terrible that they want to be seen as angels? They offer great comfort and inspiration to all kinds of people, all over the world. They don't harm anyone in doing so. I've heard their singing before. It's the most beautiful sound I've ever heard.

Last edited by Seeker_Ivy (2022-03-11 23:14:30)


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#70 2022-03-11 23:11:17

Re: Question on Karistus

Robert369 wrote:
crystallinemister wrote:
Robert369 wrote:

Interesting, but hearing "someone" singing while possibly seeing whatever entity does not automatically make it Karistus - especially since many entities play games with Humans.

How can you be sure that it was truly a Karistus that you describe here ?

Is it impossible that anyone but you had a real true experience that meant something to them? There's nothing I could do to convince you and that's not why I shared my experience. Why are you so intent on making everything horrible?

Sorry to see you taking my simple question this way, but I simply as "How can you be sure ?" and not for "proof" or any of those silly things that obviously cannot work for such a topic. Thus, a simple reply via e.g. inner knowing, how you derive this conclusion, or the like without overreacting in a triggered manner would cover that nicely, and easily explain it to all of us. Or, simply explaining that you are not intending to share this, which would be fine as well.

That sounds very reasonable. Sorry to overreact. It is only that I find you often argumentative and I am tired of arguments. I didn't mean to start one. I apologize.

How can I be sure? I can't know for sure, but I feel sure that is what happened. It is an experience that other people have shared with me in the past, so I know it's not an anomaly. I recognized the sound right away, like a past life memory or recovering a lost memory; a sudden recognition. Sudden and deep.

I didn't really question it. For once, I just felt it and appreciated it. Usually, I'm quite skeptical and I've had my shared of experiences with troublesome entities. I didn't feel any skepticism about this. The fear I was feeling just went away.

On the scale of strange experiences, it was low key and beautiful. I wasn't disturbed by it at all, quite the opposite and I am definitely very sensitive. I've had other much stranger experiences I couldn't even describe: positive, negative, and indeterminate.

Last edited by crystallinemister (2022-03-11 23:37:19)


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#71 2022-03-11 23:25:33

Robert369
Member

Re: Question on Karistus

crystallinemister wrote:

How can I be sure? I can't know for sure, but I feel sure that is what happened.

Thank you for sharing this personal experience. I guess that qualifies as "inner knowing" of some sort, especially if having other experiences to differentiate between them and this one.


Helping people to self-empower and liberate themselves, and by that ultimately the whole planet and beyond. See my profile for means to connect.

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#72 2022-03-11 23:47:18

Vanessa
Banned

Re: Question on Karistus

Seeing the convo above I dropped an email to Loka, the site owner devoted to Dantes teachings. And I had the following exchange:

1. do Karistus want to be seen as angels?
Answer:
No. Karistus prefer not to be seen at all.
They ARE beings who are identified as Angels. They ARE the ones known as the Grigori, the Watchers.
Keep in mind that they are NOT fallen. That is a mistranslation.
And not all Angels have wings. There are many types of Karistus

2. And when they show up, do they manifest as angels?
Answer:
When they show up, this can vary ... where? how?
In the skies in their craft ... sometimes they are accidentally observed flying alone, with wings.
On earth, they often appear as normal humans. Incarnates. Hybrids. This is shown in the bible too, in Hebrews 13:2

Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.

3. Do they want to be worshipped?
Answer:
They do not want to be worshipped.

4. Do they claim ownership of our planet?
Answer:
They don't OWN this planet, nor do they want to. They STEWARD this planet because they have been asked by the Goddess to protect her creations from those races who would exploit them or destroy them. They have been doing this for 17,000 years. They 'course correct' the damage done by the Vlash. The Karistus are here as PEACE KEEPERS. Not as overlords

5. What is their relation to the Federation?
Answer:
I have never heard him even mention it. It is irrelevant to who we remember ourselves to be, and what we are here to do ON THIS PLANET AT THIS TIME.

6. What is the purpose of his videos?
Answer:
What Dante has offered over 14 years of video revelations can be considered a modern version of ancient mystery schools. His information is not laid out like a course for intellectual study. His intention is to find his people, not to 'disclose' anything to the masses.

This is why so many people find his videos frustrating and annoying to watch. 'It makes no sense!' is a phrase we often hear.

His people, the Karistus hybrids, are being activated by these videos ... gently, over time. Yes. I am one. In my decades of personal and spiritual development, I have found it to be a spiritual process, par excellence. It is not a shallow experience but a life altering one. We learn ... we KNOW ... who we are, where we belong ... without any doubt whatsoever.

However, don't make the mistake of thinking we are being brainwashed. On the contrary, critical thinking is one of Dante's biggest sticks he hits us with. He has no tolerance for stupidity.

Last edited by Vanessa (2022-03-12 00:01:39)

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#73 2022-03-12 00:02:20

Seeker_Ivy
Banned

Re: Question on Karistus

Interesting answers and expected, or did you think someone who wants to be seen as a deity would openly admit it? Of course not, it's by their repeated actions that we see the truth of what they want, not always by what they say. Adding to that, it was the Taygetans and Swaruunians which told us Karistus appear as angels because they want to be seen as so and that they claimed the planet (and the Sol13 system) as belonging to them; so to go against this is to call them liars since there is no middle ground for this discrepancy, (either they want to be seen as angels or they don't, either they claim the planet/its system is theirs or they don't, no in between answer is possible). As for the rest of the answers, there are more contradictions; as the Karistus are at odds with the Federation, so it's curious that Dante didn't care to address this point. But anyway, thanks for your effort in trying to get answers to these questions.


Vanessa wrote:

Seeing the convo above I dropped an email to Loka, the site owner devoted to Dantes teachings. And I had the following exchange:

1. do Karistus want to be seen as angels?
Answer:
No. Karistus prefer not to be seen at all.
They ARE beings who are identified as Angels. They ARE the ones known as the Grigori, the Watchers.
Keep in mind that they are NOT fallen. That is a mistranslation.
And not all Angels have wings. There are many types of Karistus

2. And when they show up, do they manifest as angels?
Answer:
When they show up, this can vary ... where? how?
In the skies in their craft ... sometimes they are accidentally observed flying alone, with wings.
On earth, they often appear as normal humans. Incarnates. Hybrids. This is shown in the bible too, in Hebrews 13:2
Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.

3. Do they want to be worshipped?
Answer:
They do not want to be worshipped.

4. Do they claim ownership of our planet?
Answer:
They don't OWN this planet, nor do they want to. They STEWARD this planet because they have been asked by the Goddess to protect her creations from those races who would exploit them or destroy them. They have been doing this for 17,000 years. They 'course correct' the damage done by the Vlash. The Karistus are here as PEACE KEEPERS. Not as overlords

5. What is their relation to the Federation?
Answer:
I have never heard him even mention it. It is irrelevant to who we remember ourselves to be, and what we are here to do ON THIS PLANET AT THIS TIME.

6. What is the purpose of his videos?
Answer:
What Dante has offered over 14 years of video revelations can be considered a modern version of ancient mystery schools. His information is not laid out like a course for intellectual study. His intention is to find his people, not to 'disclose' anything to the masses.

This is why so many people find his videos frustrating and annoying to watch. 'It makes no sense!' is a phrase we often hear.

His people, the Karistus hybrids, are being activated by these videos ... gently, over time. Yes. I am one. In my decades of personal and spiritual development, I have found it to be a spiritual process, par excellence. It is not a shallow experience but a life altering one. We learn ... we KNOW ... who we are, where we belong ... without any doubt whatsoever.

However, don't make the mistake of thinking we are being brainwashed. On the contrary, critical thinking is one of Dante's biggest sticks he hits us with. He has no tolerance for stupidity.

Last edited by Seeker_Ivy (2022-03-12 00:05:29)


Seeker_Ivy

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#74 2022-03-12 00:12:00

Vanessa
Banned

Re: Question on Karistus

I also invited her to this forum. She could be a valued member as she knows Dante's work perfectly.
Let's see if she cares to join.

As for relation of Karistus to Federation I would expect a cooperative stance as the Federation is located on Jupiter too. So they are in touch.

Last edited by Vanessa (2022-03-12 00:32:43)

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#75 2022-03-12 00:15:24

Robert369
Member

Re: Question on Karistus

Seeker_Ivy wrote:

there is no middle ground for this discrepancy

The middle ground is that one cannot speak for a whole race but only for individuals, and those may have different opinions, viewpoints or insights. That is, I am sure that you get different answers from a "slave", "master" or "king" (to use medieval terms as suggested in this forum to be appropriate for them).

In fact, looking at certain known structures, it is even possible that they also have some sort of "belief system" that might not always reflect the truth of their own society's values (on Earth we know this is done via various mind-control and other belief/control systems).

This means that this might not be a lie but the perception (or commanded mission message) of the individual Karistus that was spoken to.

Last edited by Robert369 (2022-03-12 00:22:05)


Helping people to self-empower and liberate themselves, and by that ultimately the whole planet and beyond. See my profile for means to connect.

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