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#26 2021-05-28 19:02:29

mitkobs
Member

Re: ZERO DISTANCE FROM YOURSELF

I said it already back in this topic. There is an absolute truth or absolute information and it is vitally important for expansion of the soul. Relative truth is a point of view, opinion, speculation, belief, personal conclusion but not necessarily a truth that is valid for everyone and that can be applied under different conditions like the absolute truth is.

Last edited by mitkobs (2021-05-28 19:04:24)

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#27 2021-05-29 21:37:50

Re: ZERO DISTANCE FROM YOURSELF

Hermion wrote:
CHARCOtranquilo wrote:

.

In other words, the recognition that Truth is Truth and nothing else is, this statement implies that, without the former, the latter is meaningless, but the latter without the former, ceases to be true.

Could you please replace "the former" and "the later" with full sentence it refers to for me to grasp what you mean so that I can react?

Thank you,


- Love&light Hermi -

This proposition refers to the fact that in the Source there can be no opposites. That is to say, just as the Source is ONE, Truth, too, is ONE, and therefore that which is false or untruth cannot have a place, for it would be highly incongruous, since a mere speck of untruth that could enter into Truth would be in clear contradiction to that which by definition per se is Truth. In other words, if that which is not true were as true as that which is not true, then part of truth would be false and truth would cease to have its meaning.

This breaks radically with the idea widely disseminated by both new age and what I personally call the Manichean relativism of "spiritual" duality that there are "multiple truths" as if this statement has the magical capacity that, simply by being uttered, the boundaries between truth and falsehood are blurred in an act of supreme wisdom. Or, in other words, to use rhetoric in which opposites are reconciled in an act of demagogy, even though by their very nature they are intrinsically irreconcilable.
But let us expose this proposition to a deeper analysis:

If there are multiple truths, that means they are all distinct. If they are all distinct, that means that they are all distinct in their truth, but NOT EQUAL in the truth of the other multiple truths, ergo, we might consider that there are more truths "more true than other truths.... But shouldn't Truth be One for it to be consistent? Shouldn't we then consider that since they are all distinct none reflect truth, for only Truth IS and can BE One? Therefore, the idea that "there are multiple truths" this statement, only reflects the multiple relative bias of your personal truth in your lie.   For if we say that there are "multiple truths", should we consider that "there are multiple lies", can we consider that they all lie in equality and degrees of lie or are they all distinct in their own lie? Should we not therefore consider that the lie to be a lie should be One? Or are there lies truer than other lies and therefore should we consider that they would be more truth than lie? Where is Truth to be found now?

In conclusion, "there are multiple truths"?..... Yes, but within their own PERSONAL lie, because outside the lie, Truth is One and Indivisible.
I will try to explain it more graphically: surely this metaphor will be familiar to you if I describe that Light can "enter" and fade the darkness, but darkness can never enter the light and fade it. In that case all darkness can do is to hide the light, but it can never penetrate the light to obscure it. When has darkness ever been seen to be LIGHT... and when has LIGHT ever been seen to be darkness? Is it not clear that they are irreconcilable opposites?

All this alludes to:

The Source as Truth has NEVER separated from ITSELF. In the SOURCE, there is no room for separation or duality. In It there is neither time nor space nor that which we understand as evolution or progression of "souls" or "spiritual" individualities. We can only say with limited success of limited words, that THE SOURCE, IS. Bearing in mind that it is the only REALITY, for it is not conditioned by changes, and therefore, we can also affirm that it is THE ONLY TRUTH.

However, a singularity (I use the word singularity as a figure of speech) created a schism of "separation" which seemed impossible to occur, a "creation out of the source" (something quite impossible) arose. A "creation" which is in perpetual motion, which is flowing, which is unstable, and which APPARENTLY, is "evolving and expanding".  Although you have NEVER left the Source of THAT REALITY that as a "Soul" (I use the word "soul" as a figure of speech) you cohabited and cohabit NOW with the SOURCE, because the "temporary creation" you think you are immersed in is happening on another level that we could literally call dreamlike. In other words, you are only dreaming it.

This is quite confusing to human understanding and also to the understanding of the countless races of beings living in this Universe in all its densities with their corresponding dimensions. All races are experiencing the dream of separation.  This represents the apparent evolution of consciousness, technology, expanded capabilities of the mind, and social establishments on all levels. 

All of this is occurring in this dream within your own creation. NOT THE SOURCE. Source does NOT dream, there is no room for illusion. However, even though you now live separate from the SOURCE, where everything seems different and unique where everything seems to be changing and moving; being born and dying in a loop with no apparent purpose. THE REALITY IS THAT YOU HAVE NEVER LEFT THE SOURCE. Just like all extraterrestrial races who experience, as you do, the vicissitudes of time and space.

The important thing to understand is that the only veil that separates you from this ABSOLUTE TRUTH THAT IS THE SOURCE is...,,,,,,,,,,,, A THOUGHT.

It is true, speaking of the dream, that if this dream loop were not permanently changing, this would be a psychotic hell. Imagine for a moment that this universe in any of its densities/dimensions did not have progression. That is, you would establish "immortality". There would simply be no hope. And even if that density/dimension you perceive never changed, after a longer or even a shorter time and even though it met all your needs, you would feel uncomfortable and trapped and want to break free. This is happening simultaneously, NOW, in all densities/dimensions in which you APPARENTLY "exist".

This "beautiful dream" full of infinite possibilities so hopeful for that "creator of his apparent ILLUSORY reality" who has been seduced by his own "creations" which from the most terrifying, ambivalent, integrative, enigmatic pleasurable, sublime, sublime, and "spiritual" seem to exist forever.  But, above all, the trap of this dream is that you still believe that this "sweet creative hell" will, at some point in this endless loop, WORK.

Once you become aware that you are dreaming, and that you are entertaining time, you begin to question the reality of the dream and the dreamer. Time is the interval, non-existent between that which is PERMANENT and which is the SOURCE, and the temporary dream where you now believe you exist. This Understanding that is the SOURCE is within you, as a profoundly determinant and certain intelligence that is not seduced by this "sweet creative hell". This Understanding is not bewildered by appearances, it is not attracted to all those things of the dream that seem to seduce and fascinate you, (including aliens). It does not fear change, loss or death, for it is the Source that IS in you.

Last edited by CHARCOtranquilo (2021-05-30 00:37:41)


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#28 2021-05-30 05:54:15

mitkobs
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Re: ZERO DISTANCE FROM YOURSELF

CHARCOtranquilo that makes complete sense for me now.

Who is creating the Universe, the Dream - someone who is separated from the Source with an idea of separation.

And what a dream is this, so vast, so massive, so perfect, hard to grasp the whole of it, hard to describe. The beauty of it...
And like you say what a temptation to be part of this dream. And that is what is keeping us within the dream, the desires to pleasure the senses. 

Does only one idea is standing between us, the illusion self(ego, tulpa) and the Source? The simple idea of being separated? This idea may seem simple but is not simple and the realization of the whole illusion will make us free of the illusion. There is no other exit from this, and that is the work that we have to take to liberate from our illusory self and integrate back to Source.

Last edited by mitkobs (2021-05-30 09:59:36)

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#29 2021-05-31 04:55:49

mitkobs
Member

Re: ZERO DISTANCE FROM YOURSELF

After the most important question "Who I Am" comes the next important question "What I want" or what I want to do with my time/space dreamscape. Now I believe that if we are able to shed off all illusions we become the Source and that may be easy to happen in spiritual "form" than being a body. So when we die we can be the Source, just then switch off all the illusions, desires, regrets and join the wholeness of everything and see how it is. Now you can decide if is suiting you like this to be everything or should continue to be a part of it and continue to explore the dream from single perception point of attention.

Last edited by mitkobs (2021-05-31 04:57:14)

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#30 2021-05-31 10:32:45

Re: ZERO DISTANCE FROM YOURSELF

Hermion wrote:

@CHARCOtranquilo why is Source defined as "all there is", if we all speak of it as something we are separated from?

If we are a fractal of it, how can it be "all there is"?Frequency of my soul is not the same as frequency of a piece of iron for example. I am intelligent, piece of iron is not.
In which sense am I a holographic fragment of Source?


- Love&light Hermi -

This statement which purports to define Source as "all there is" DOES NOT INCLUDE DREAM; which is defined by all that is perceived; Dream is the dream of perceived objects, which also includes bodies, and which also includes the so-called "subtle spiritual bodies of ascensional progression", and which also includes all that space "out there" which you call the Universe.
All that can be perceived in an act of projection IS THE DREAM. But... Why does the Source NOT include the dream, if the dream is supposed to have its origin in the Source itself since it IS the only thing that Exists? If the NON-dual quality of Source is INTEGRATION, is it not a clear contradiction of the very non-dual quality of Source to consider that the dream and the dreamer are excluded from Source?

The answer to this insightful question is extremely simple in its comprehension for one who has Merged with Source, but conflictingly contradictory (cognitive dissonance) for one who still considers the "dream" as real" and perceives himself affirmed and confirmed in the belief of being separate from Source.

The short answer: THE SOURCE DOES NOT DREAM BECAUSE THE DREAM HAS NOT ENTERED THE SOURCE, NOR DOES IT ENTER, NOR WILL IT EVER ENTER.

The extended answer: A dream by definition is that which is sustained on a basis of dreamlike unreality, therefore, should we consider that its dreamlike condition can give reality to that which by definition DOES NOT EXIST? But we can also conclude that dreams are only "real" (I use it as a dialectical element) while the dreamer dreams, but once the dreamer wakes up in the dream and the dream they are extinguished in the nothingness from where they never emerged and everyone who wakes up immediately notices their illusoriness because the very REALITY to which "the dreamer" awakens exposes it as evidently false because the dream is not within the awakening and the Awakening is not within the dream.

I will use an interrogative simile to illustratively understand that there is no such separation/distance between Source and you.

So... What separation is there between the "I" that lies prostrate in its bed dreaming and the "I" that once the dream is extinguished, awakens to wakefulness? The answer is NONE. In other words:

"THE ZERO DISTANCE FROM YOURSELF".

Likewise this is the distance that separates you from the Source and from that imaginary "I" who is imprisoned in a dream where he believes that the dream is dreaming him instead of verifying that he is the dreamer of the dream which would mean that upon realisation Awakening would be its logical consequence.


There is no such separation between the source and you, that is absolutely illusory.


I opened the door
and your Presence entered
like a sword,
without asking.

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#31 2021-05-31 11:35:01

Re: ZERO DISTANCE FROM YOURSELF

mitkobs wrote:

After the most important question "Who I Am" comes the next important question "What I want" or what I want to do with my time/space dreamscape.

After the question "Who am I..." comes the question  comes the question...
What is this "I" that asks "who am I"?....

Does this "I" that asks "who am I" exist as such?....

Who or what sees and from where does this "I" that asks "who I am" see itself?....

Has this "me" that wonders "who I am" ever seen "me" from some other "me"?....

Does the "me" that wonders "who I am" see me...?

Do I find in any part of my body, hands, fingers, arms, torso, legs, etc., any "me" that asks "who am I"?




mitkobs wrote:

Now I believe that if we are able to shed off all illusions we become the Source and that may be easy to happen in spiritual "form" than being a body.

Believing oneself to be in a subtler, "more spiritual" form does NOT and will NOT facilitate in Being Source. That is a fallacy fuelled by the idea that there is an upward spiritual progression to completion at Source.

The attainment of Fusion is NOW. This idea of procrastination in other "progressive spiritual realities" is nefarious and feeds self-indulgence and idleness and perversely delays you from liberation from separation.




mitkobs wrote:

So when we die we can be the Source, just then switch off all the illusions, desires, regrets and join the wholeness of everything and see how it is..

In fact, in those more subtle or "spiritual" worlds, because of the less contrasting content of suffering and conflict, it is much more difficult to achieve Mergence with the source, for one falls into the seductive trap of considering that one has achieved Mergence with the Source. For separation contains both pleasure and suffering and can deceive, enthrall, fascinate and entrap you in any of the densities/dimensions, be they more physical or less physical, more spiritual or less spiritual.

People's beliefs and assumptions, their metaphysical ideas, their religious values and speculations, all suffer from a kind of level confusion (progressive idea of ascension). They try to imagine a "progressive spiritual state" by jumping from perception to perception, i.e. trying to subtleise the perception of spiritual worlds now called densities/dimensions, but they CANNOT see it as it REALLY IS. They cannot resonate with it as it really is, because they are not ready for it, because it is the very beliefs and ideas they have about themselves that separate them from themselves and Source.

Last edited by CHARCOtranquilo (2021-05-31 12:06:52)


I opened the door
and your Presence entered
like a sword,
without asking.

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#32 2021-05-31 12:26:52

mitkobs
Member

Re: ZERO DISTANCE FROM YOURSELF

I can agree with all that as another perspective. Again, I can say that you are defining the Source to be according to your views how Source is. And that is the main problem. We define the Source how we like it to be. You see it your way, I see it my way.

And if we take some of your reasoning that there is no separation and never been, we are here and now the Source then every point of view is valid with its whole background of the reasoning that supports it. And maybe our reasoning do not matter at all because we cannot see the whole picture and maybe is impossible to see the whole picture from single point of attention.

Last edited by mitkobs (2021-05-31 12:29:45)

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#33 2021-05-31 13:21:36

Re: ZERO DISTANCE FROM YOURSELF

mitkobs wrote:

I can agree with all that as another perspective. Again, I can say that you are defining the Source to be according to your views how Source is. And that is the main problem. We define the Source how we like it to be. You see it your way, I see it my way.

Yes, that's right: I can only give you a perspective, I can, using the dialectic and rhetorical resources of limited language, offer you only a perspective, an inevitable cognitive bias to save and transmit despite all the pedagogical effort you may offer in your explanation. It is evident that you have to be the verifier of what is exposed here because otherwise it will only be, as you rightly say, one more perspective, one more point of view as valid as that of the most absolute ignorant of this REALITY.

I cannot show it to anyone to BE. This way of thinking, if I thought it was that easy, would be puerile and naive.  You cannot show that which has no intellectual basis and where language collapses like a house of cards in the face of its definition. It is not as easy as saying: This is it. Believe in this. 

But for those who have experienced the "Mystery, of Being the Source, this is more real than anything you can touch, anything you can think, anything you can see, imagine, hear or hold in your hands. All that becomes less real, less important.

A universal ontology of Source is an impossibility, but a direct experience of Source is not only necessary but possible.


I opened the door
and your Presence entered
like a sword,
without asking.

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#34 2021-05-31 19:17:03

mitkobs
Member

Re: ZERO DISTANCE FROM YOURSELF

CHARCOtranquilo wrote:
mitkobs wrote:

I can agree with all that as another perspective. Again, I can say that you are defining the Source to be according to your views how Source is. And that is the main problem. We define the Source how we like it to be. You see it your way, I see it my way.

Yes, that's right: I can only give you a perspective, I can, using the dialectic and rhetorical resources of limited language, offer you only a perspective, an inevitable cognitive bias to save and transmit despite all the pedagogical effort you may offer in your explanation. It is evident that you have to be the verifier of what is exposed here because otherwise it will only be, as you rightly say, one more perspective, one more point of view as valid as that of the most absolute ignorant of this REALITY.

I cannot show it to anyone to BE. This way of thinking, if I thought it was that easy, would be puerile and naive.  You cannot show that which has no intellectual basis and where language collapses like a house of cards in the face of its definition. It is not as easy as saying: This is it. Believe in this. 

But for those who have experienced the "Mystery, of Being the Source, this is more real than anything you can touch, anything you can think, anything you can see, imagine, hear or hold in your hands. All that becomes less real, less important.

A universal ontology of Source is an impossibility, but a direct experience of Source is not only necessary but possible.

Is the experience of Source comparable like an everlasting peace, perfect silence and such tranquility like everything stops, no time or space and it is only You?

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#35 2021-06-02 23:31:02

Re: ZERO DISTANCE FROM YOURSELF

mitkobs wrote:

Is the experience of Source comparable like an everlasting peace, perfect silence and such tranquility like everything stops, no time or space and it is only You?


Yes, those are some of the emerging aspects as a result of DIRECT experience, of Source.

I have already listed at greater length and in more detail in another post what those emergent qualities are as a result of that direct experience of Source.

But I will discuss in more detail what is this Silence (with capital letters) that extends and permeates the entire consciousness when that epiphany occurs, revealing an Understanding that, although it alters and removes all the foundations of the beliefs, values, neurotic habits, unconscious states, even disabling traumatic situations ,  in which the person's living circumstances had been based and above all conditioned up to that moment, nevertheless, in many other cases (although this cannot be generalised for all individuals), the personal and social circumstances in which the individual is immersed do not manifest any external change that could identify such a Revelation. The greatness of this epiphany is shown to the eyes of the world with a manifest humility because it recognises the equality of all in all.
In meditation, there has been and is much talk of silencing the mind, of quieting the thoughts by engaging in a constant meditative practice of trying hard to create spaces of silence and thus to widen or extend the silence to the degree that this silence becomes permanently established. It is true that these practices achieve remarkable results to the extent that mental chatter is minimised to the extent that even after years of practice it becomes part of everyday life. But this silence, however, is only superficial and does not permeate the whole psyche of the individual. Here silence is still something that needs constant attention. Another indicator that this silence is artificially provoked is that it is seen as another object of the psyche, an ability proper to the psychic potential, which means that the individual is still psychologically separated from silence.  In other words, silence is still contingent on conscious attention because it is still a skilful object that needs to be instrumentalised in order to silence the mind.

There is also another type of silence to be considered which, although it is also the result of an instrumentation, this silence, however, occurs spontaneously, and usually manifests itself as a sudden glimpse or realisation by creating in the mind a paradoxical state that triggers a total quasi-impregnation of the psyche resulting in a silencing of thoughts.  This silence due to its depth is perceived as if it were a solid column of silence, as if it could be cut into slices. It is as if a solid sensory isolation has been created where thoughts cannot break through the barrier.
Here the individual who experiences this kind of silence "spontaneously" perceives that he or she makes no effort to maintain the silence. Indeed, there is even a sense of a certain need for effort in order for thoughts to originate.  In other words, just as the previous type of more superficial silence required effort to silence the thoughts, in this deeper and "spontaneous" type of silence the effects are reversed, requiring effort to generate the flow of thought. It is as if the mind has stopped dead in its tracks to the point that even outside noise cannot penetrate this solid silence.  But it must be noted that still the psyche continues to differentiate between the Silence and the silenced. That is, the individual still experiences the psychic duality of "I" and "Silence". It must also be said that this silence can last for hours or even days, and just as it arises spontaneously, it also disappears spontaneously and progressively, with the sensation that this density or solidity is fading away.

It should be emphasised that these two types of silence are not genuine and transcendent silence, outside the realm of the psyche, but are the product of cognition-perception, and as a consequence of the same perception it is dual.

We will now speak of the true Silence that is outside the territories of the psyche, that is to say, that which is outside time and space. This Silence is the Silence that finally silences the chattering of the mind. Once this Silence is produced, it is irreversible. The psyche is impregnated with this Silence in its totality and there is no psychological, emotional and spiritual chink that is not touched by this Silence. Its irruption like a bolt of lightning is overwhelming when it occurs because its unexpected manifestation leaves the individual completely silenced, in terms of all those questions that raised all the uncertainties of the vision of an overwhelmingly chaotic world, lacking all vital meaning both in the psychological realm of relationships with others and the relationship with oneself, and in the spiritual realm of those questions that represented an idealised idea of what "being or acting in a spiritual way" represented up to that moment.

Unlike the previous silences described above where the dual mind was still directly involved with the divided expression between the Silence and the silenced one, between "I" and the experience of silence, this perceptual dissociation of experience disappears and the Silence ceases to be an "experience" and becomes a NON-EXPERIENCE, where something unexpectedly of extreme perplexity is observed: the total absence of "I" as a psychological individual, or what is the same with all those intellectual, emotional, physical and experiential contents that this "I" granted him an idea of identity defined in a world of relations that returned to him like a mirror the affirmation of this own illusory identity.

This psychological identity "I" is swept away by this transcendent Silence, which is beyond time and space and removes the main obstacle that did not allow one to SEE that this Silence is integrally what you truly ARE without needing to be thought about, attended to, provoked, and cultivated, studied, etc. One realises that this Silence has always been available at all times and places and was just waiting to BE actualised in an incomprehensibly accessible doing without doing. But there is a more overwhelming feature as one realises that this Silence blurs the boundaries of the idea of space as being in a localised and concrete place. One knows and SEES oneself to be a-spatial, which means that one walks in the world-universe without being in any world or Universe.   This generates a sensation of absolute FREEDOM where nothing and nobody can contain or chain you. It is here that one breaks with all the cycles of reincarnation or the existence of dwelling in any density/dimension, the illusoriness of the whole "Universe perceived in its infinite densities and dimensions" is understood in a meridian way. 

This FREEDOM unbound is obviously synonymous with ABSOLUTE PEACE in the absence of all time and space; IT IS THE ETERNAL FORMLESS INTEGRATING SILENCE IN ALL FORMS.

Last edited by CHARCOtranquilo (2021-06-03 00:45:19)


I opened the door
and your Presence entered
like a sword,
without asking.

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#36 2021-06-03 04:43:27

mitkobs
Member

Re: ZERO DISTANCE FROM YOURSELF

CHARCOtranquilo all this what you said cannot be teached or transferred from one to another. It have to come to you naturally without any effort. But first you have to be engaged with acquiring knowledge(become the seeker), make countless connections in mind, understand how nature works in depth, how the spiritual reality work, to be in love with expanding knowledge/information and the idea of oneself. Then at some point critical realization after realization occur. Blossoming within. And enlightenment, like a lighting striking within shattering all ideas and concepts appropriate about personality and what is you now will never be the same as before.

Last edited by mitkobs (2021-06-03 04:44:33)

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#37 2022-12-25 19:56:01

JimiPickle
Member

Re: ZERO DISTANCE FROM YOURSELF

Un viaje a esta meditación revela el silencio luminoso de la Fuente con nosotros. ES infinita. El contenedor de la conciencia nunca ha estado ni estará sin conexión con la Fuente. Y como bellamente has descrito, esta conexión es perfecta hasta que se forma un pensamiento. Un pensamiento procurado por la mente, que no puede ser encontrado, forma una idea que puede impulsar al cuerpo ilusorio en un viaje hacia la ilusión diametral que se forma frente a los ojos. Este pensamiento/idea se teje en un velo que se superpone delante de la ilusión... ilusión sobre ilusión mezclada con otras ilusiones. El viaje de este pensamiento/idea se encuentra con un misterio ilusorio de dualidad a medida que se despliega para revelar más ilusiones; ilusiones, donde el deseo se encuentra con el miedo, donde el querer se encuentra con la carencia, donde la realidad no puede encontrarse. Este es un hermoso infierno.

¿Cuándo termina la ilusión? ¿Dónde empezó? ¿Por qué está aquí? Estos pensamientos no existen, nunca han existido y por lo tanto no pueden ser contestados excepto por la mente ilusoria que los formó. Un hermoso infierno, sin duda.

Con mucho amor, amigo mío.

A journey into this meditation reveals the luminous silence of Source with us. IT IS infinite. The container of consciousness has never been nor will be without a connection to Source. And as you have beautifully described, this connection is perfect until a thought is formed. A thought procured by the mind, that cannot be found, forms an idea that can propel the illusionary body on a journey into this illusion that forms in front of the eyes. This thought/idea is woven into a veil that superimposes itself in front of the illusion…illusion over illusion mixed with other illusions. The journey of this thought/idea is met with an illusionary mystery of duality as it unfolds to reveal more illusions; illusions, where desire meets fear, where want meets lack, where reality cannot be found. This is a beautiful hell.

When does the illusion end? Where did it begin? Why is it here? These thoughts do not exist, have never existed and therefore cannot be answered except by the illusionary mind that formed them. A beautiful hell, indeed.

Much Love to you, my friend.

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