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#1 2021-05-03 03:08:48

pete
Member

Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

Hi all,

My first post. Just finished going through all the videos and transcripts in English. Many thanks for all the work involved in making all the info public.

As a buddhist, my interest was obviouly peaked when Swaruu mentioned the historical Buddha. She seemed familar with his life/teachings, so it made me wonder if a more in-depth conversation on this topic already happened but perhaps hasn't been published yet?

From memory, she mentions him only in passing on three or four occasions. It would be very interesting to hear what the Taygetan and other ET races have to say about him and his teachings. Thank you!

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#2 2021-05-03 12:11:45

Gosia
Administrator

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

Dont have any details on him but I remember faintly Swaruu mentioned he did exist. Just got glorified later too much.

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#3 2021-05-04 04:54:37

pete
Member

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

Thank you for responding, Gosia. And thank you so much for everything you are doing!

Yes, I only remember 3-4 brief mentions in passing. I think once she said that the he was close to the truth. Also, that he had it almost right in some instances, but also that buddhism as a religion was used to control people, even though that wasn’t necessarily his intention. And she seemed to stress that last point, which I appreciated.

Overall, I found a lot of similarities between Swaruu’s and teachings attributed to the historical Buddha. But, there are also some differences, so I am interested in knowing how Swaruu, Yazhi and the Taygetans see his teachings, where they agree and where they disagree.

Naturally, buddhism as a state religion is something quite different from what the Buddha originally taught, so I’m even more interested in hearing if the Taygetans have any records of their own about what he actually said during his life and how they understand it.

Anyway, I’m sure there are many more pressing matters to talk about with the Taygetan team. If you and others don’t mind, I’ll add a few questions in this thread about this topic, in case it ever comes up in your talks in the future.

Thank you!

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#4 2021-05-05 23:11:05

pete
Member

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

Here are some of my questions on various topics from a buddhist perspective. Thanks for the opportunity!

Of course, my knowledge of Buddhist and Taygetan teachings is very limited, so the following is based only on my current mis/understandings. I hope not to misrepresent anyone!



Questions about history

Have the Taygetans met the historical Buddha?

What do their records say about him and his teachings?

Are there any parts of his teachings that they disagree with or understand differently?

Swaruu said that he had it almost right. Where does she agree with him, and where does she disagree?

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#5 2021-05-05 23:13:10

pete
Member

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

Questions about Samsara and the Source


What according to Taygetans is Samsara and what would constitute exiting Samsara?

Swaruu used the word Samsara a few times and said (if I understood correctly) that she is looking for a way out of Samsara. In Buddhism, one of the main goals is to exit Samsara as well. Samsara stands for the round of rebirths on any plane/density whatsoever no matter how high / low (including non-existence). Exiting Samsara would mean no more rebirth on any plane of existence whatsoever.


Is the Source included in Samsara or not, according to Taygetans?

In Buddhism (at least as I understand it), the Source is not mentioned at all, and seems to have no relevance to awakening. I suppose the Source from a buddhist perspective could probably be equated with the deity called Great Brahma who thinks himself eternal and creator of everything, but who is still considered a being that gets born and dies (even though he may have forgotten about it due to his extreme age), and thus still trapped in Samsara.


Is the Source something that the Taygetans have discovered on their own, or is it something that they have heard from other races (e.g. Andromedans)?

What part does integration with the Source play in the Taygetan understanding of an individual’s development/advancement/awakening?

Integration / unification with the source/godhead does seem to play a prominent part in various strands of Hinduism (which according to Swaruu were influenced by Andromedans – she mentioned Shiva being an Andromedan). In Buddhism however (as I understand it at least), integration / unification with a godhead or rebirth on any sort of a higher plane / density would be considered a false path as all beings that come into existence must die at some point and are thus still trapped in the round of rebirths.

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#6 2021-05-06 00:30:53

Exploringsoul
Member

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

My 2 cents. I believe Buddhism talk about the source extensively, which is śūnyatā.  I learn Buddhism in other language, hope it is right word, or something like that.

To me, it is like describing ether in ancient language without better word.

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#7 2021-05-06 08:39:52

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

i remember in one of cosmic agency's videos approximately a year ago that it was stated by one of the entities in 5D that Buddhism is the best of all the so called religions on earth.
stated as such to the best of my recollection.

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#8 2021-05-06 09:16:15

07wideeyes
Member

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

I did Buddhist practice for many years, especially Buddhist meditation. There is the historical Buddha, but there is also Buddhist theory and practice as it morphed over the centuries. There was Mahayana Buddhism and Tantric Buddhism, esp associated with Tibet. These are all variants on a theme, and my interpretation is that they are, by and large, spiritually-inclined dudes doing exactly what is going on here: trying to get to grips with what Buddha supposedly said, and with the feeling his supposed teachings could be expanded, clarified, made more suitable for the current times etc. In other words, it's a mine field of ever-changing notions and experiences, and it is better approached like that, rather than trying to pin down exactly what Buddhism is.

I find ro2778's summary pretty fascinating, and there's a lot in it, I feel. I tend to view Nirvana and Source as referring to more-or-less the same; and for me, 'more-or-less' is OK, since there are levels of experience which cannot be conceptually described properly; not amenable to pinning down with words. On Nirvana and Samsara, I think it can be useful as a tool for understanding. Samsara is matrix life. What the Buddha's teachings omit is that there is a more 'natural' samsara ie 3D Matrix on Earth, but there is another layer of matrix, the superimposed reptilian hack, if you like. There is nothing in Buddha's teachings about this second one - maybe the layer of cabal was not so thick in those days. And maybe it also connects with how the vast majority of Buddhists who I know are extremely resistant to, hostile even, 'conspiracy'. They fail to see that the cabal exists, and is deepest samsara in action! They believe in the wear-a-mask story, which I have found rather surprising/disturbing. I'm delighted that there is at least one Buddhist here, Pete, who is otherwise.

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#9 2021-05-06 09:47:43

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

07wideeyes wrote:

There is nothing in Buddha's teachings about this second one - maybe the layer of cabal was not so thick in those days. And maybe it also connects with how the vast majority of Buddhists who I know are extremely resistant to, hostile even, 'conspiracy'. They fail to see that the cabal exists, and is deepest samsara in action! They believe in the wear-a-mask story

greetings 07wideeyes,

very well said.

i like how you explained it.

very interesting interpretation and analysis of the situation and historical timelines.

have a great day always,

Enoch

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#10 2021-05-06 11:43:43

07wideeyes
Member

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

ro2778 wrote:

I was really interested in Buddhism back then, but I have changed some of my understanding since then, after all, everything is impermanent! I found the Buddhism parts of the school for gods fascinating too, but I won't spoil it! Buddha means enlightened man, but enlightenment is a relative term. Just because you stop reincarnating in this place it doesn't stop your journey towards full integrity. And monk, from monos is a person in search of oneness, their integrity.

Yes, a similar trajectory to mine. Buddhism for a while seemed to provide a passport to freedom. But the time arrived when any kind of identity like that manifested as a restriction that I could no longer put up with. At its best, for me, Buddhism is simply deepening and expanding awareness, and exploration of consciousness - just as Yazhi and Swaruu before her emphasise. But like any 'ism' it easily gets caught up in needless theorising, nit-picking, head-bashing.

Dr Enoch, I really like it whenever you dip into the forum with your succinct comments. Nearly always guaranteed to keep the frequency up. Muchos abrazos!

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#11 2021-05-07 02:59:07

mahengrui1
Member

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

would anyone quotes Swruu s transcripts about this

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#12 2021-05-07 03:10:15

pete
Member

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

Thank you all for your responses.

It's interesting to see the parallels you have found between Buddhism and what the Taygetans are saying. And, it's encouraing of course to come accross a few of you here with some appreciation of Buddhism. While I feel I don't have nearly enough direct knowledge to make any meaningful comments, I hope you won't mind if I take some of your points and convert them into questions for the Taygetan team in case they ever come accross these issues. Thanks!

Further questions for the Taygetans:

What are their thoughts on Sunyata (also translated as voidness, emptiness, etc)?
For reference, in Theravada school of Buddhism that I'm familiar with, voidness would refer to a mark of the nature of reality, exprience, phenomena, etc. That is, it would refer to an understanding that an experience is void of self, that it is conditioned by nature, and not worthy of attaching to it. In other shools of Buddhism, this would be explained a bit differently, but hopefully it is enough as a reference in relation to which the Taygetans could explain theirs views on the matter. From memory, Swarru did mention a few times that attachment is a problem, so it would be great to hear a bit more on the topic.

What are their thoughts on Nibbana (Nirvana)?
Again, for reference only, in Theravada it could be briefly explained as the deathless element, the only phenomenon/experience that could be called permanent and not causing suffereing.

What are their thoughs on the relationship between the Source, Sunyata and Nibbana?

Thanks!

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#13 2021-05-07 03:32:05

pete
Member

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

A few more question for the Taygetans on more detailed topics.

Again just to mention that I'm no authority on Buddhism, and just giving my understnading of these issues as a reference for the Taygetans so they have a starting point from which to express how they understand these things.


Often Swaruu and Gosia say that many of us here are "born from the Source". What does that actually mean?

For reference, in buddhism as far as I'm aware, birth is said to be conditioned by attachment and ignorance. Elmination of attachment and ignorance results in awakening, nibbana, and no more rebirht on any plane.


How do Taygetans define karma precisely?

For reference, kamma (karma) in buddhism is equated with the mental element of intention. Rather than designating it as good or bad, the accent is on understanding intention as just another element (phenomenon or experience) that is impermanent at the time of its arising,  that is void of self, and that causes suffering if misunderstood or attached to (when taken as one’s self). Upon awakening, kamma is no longer produced as it is no longer misunderstood or taken as a part of one’s self.


What is wisdom according to Taygetans?

For reference, wisdom in buddhism would also be just another mental element (or phenomenon), just like intention, concentration, kindness, anger, perception, etc. It has a function to play (e.g. understanding the nature of reality), and can be developed (thus leading to awakening), but it is not something to be attached to or taken as one’s self either.


How would the Taygetans explain the difference between consciousness, thinking, perception, awareness and wisdom?

In buddhism, all of these would be just mental elements that can be understood as impermanent, as not belonging to one’s self and as causing suffering if misunderstood or taken as self. But they each have a function to play and can be developed, thus leading to awakening. How would the Taygetans define / describe the differences between them?


How would the Taygetans explain the difference between thinking and thoughts?
In buddhism, or at least in the school I’m more familiar with (Theravada), thoughts would generally be considered an illusion, though different schools and traditions explain it differently. Thinking on the other hand would be considered a mental element that can be understood as impermanent, void of self and as causing suffering if attached to.

Thanks!

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#14 2021-05-07 21:54:05

07wideeyes
Member

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

Pleased you've dug out the quotes, ro2778, and they make especially clear the matter of karma. They are also getting back to the original subject of the topic! Having said that, I think this ramble through the pros and cons of Buddhism in general has been interesting and productive - quite 'enlightening', even. This in terms of understanding of consciousness.

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#15 2021-05-08 06:18:13

pete
Member

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

Thanks for the quotes from me, too, ro2778.

There is also one great and short expression from Swaruu that I remember hearing on the Spanish channel - my Spanish is terrible, but I think she said something like - the Buddha wasn't a Buddhist. I loved that one. Hence I'm interested to hear what the Taygetans think about the historical Buddha rather than about buddhism.

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#16 2021-05-08 06:22:41

pete
Member

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

Questions about meditation

Do the Taygetans distinguish between insight meditation and tranquility meditation?

For reference, insight meditation in Buddhism (regardless of whether it is undertaken in a sitting setting, or an in an "all-the-time" setting) is generally geared towards developing insight (wisdom) into the nature of reality, what eventuates in liberation from Samsara. Tranquility meditation (usually explained by way of jhanas /dhyanas) is geared towards developing calm / peace, and while it can result in rebirth in higher planes and development of superpowers, it cannot lead to insight that liberates from Samsara. Usually, Buddhist meditation practice would combine both insight and tranquility aspects.


What are the Taygetans’ thoughts on jhanas / dhyanas and their relation to the Source, densities, etc?

For reference, there are 8 jhanas / states of mind described in Buddhism, which can be developed through tranquillity meditation.

The first 4 jhanas are mental states of increasing bliss, calm and concentration. Also, at fourth jhana (which is considered the most stable of the four), various superpowers can be accessed, based on one’s predispositions.

5th jhana – state of infinite space, when the bounds of time and space are transcended.
6th jhana – state of infinite consciousness - when the bounds of a single consciousness are transcended.
7th jhana – state of infinite nothingness – both infinite space and infinite consciousness are transcended.
8th jhana – state of neither perception nor non-perception – the process of cognition itself is transcended.

There are 2 more “special mental states” if they can be called that, which can be accessed after the 8th jhana, if insight has also been developed:

Cessation of perception and feeling – as far as I understand, this would refer to complete cessation of perception, feeling and consciousness for a certain time.
Nibbana (nirvana) – upon emerging from the state of cessation, it would become clear that any and all experiences are void of self, conditioned and do not require a self, god or any sort of a willing agent, and are thus not worth attaching to. This complete letting go, or complete non-attachment, allows for the experience of nibbana. With the experience of nibbana, the way out of Samsara is finally found.

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#17 2021-05-11 23:33:12

mahengrui1
Member

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

pete wrote:

Questions about meditation


There are 2 more “special mental states” if they can be called that, which can be accessed after the 8th jhana, if insight has also been developed:

Cessation of perception and feeling – as far as I understand, this would refer to complete cessation of perception, feeling and consciousness for a certain time.
Nibbana (nirvana) – upon emerging from the state of cessation, it would become clear that any and all experiences are void of self, conditioned and do not require a self, god or any sort of a willing agent, and are thus not worth attaching to. This complete letting go, or complete non-attachment, allows for the experience of nibbana. With the experience of nibbana, the way out of Samsara is finally found.

It is your understand or is it mentioned by Swaruu? I'd say Cessation of perception and feeling is still in the 4th. The 4th is the top, like a big circle, this one belongs to it. 5th to 8th are 4 small circles attached at the corner of the big one, they are all the top of Saṃsāra. However it is based on features, in the progressing of visiting may have complex the first and the last.

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#18 2021-05-13 09:49:13

pete
Member

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

mahengrui1 wrote:

It is your understand or is it mentioned by Swaruu? I'd say Cessation of perception and feeling is still in the 4th. The 4th is the top, like a big circle, this one belongs to it. 5th to 8th are 4 small circles attached at the corner of the big one, they are all the top of Saṃsāra. However it is based on features, in the progressing of visiting may have complex the first and the last.

Sorry I wasn't clear. Yes, that's just my understanding of how (some traditions in) Buddhism explain jhanas. So, not Swaruu's words. I just meantion it as a reference for Taygetans to express how they see all this.

As you say, I too have heard that some traditions consider jhanas 5-8 as a part of the 4th jhana. I suppose the difference would be in the object of the mind - space, consciousness, nothingness, etc.

In regards to cessation of perception and feeling, there are different explanations. I haven't heard it being a part of the 4th jhana though. Mostly because any jhana would imply that there is still consciousness, perception, feeling, etc, even though they may be of highly exalted nature. However, cessation of perception and feeling (to my understnading) would imply a complete stop of consciousness, peception, etc. Just everthing stops completely and does not arise. Some traditions say that this state is only accessible to those who have developed insight (wisdom) to very high degrees and can indeed let go completely of everything that is taken as one's self, even consciousness.

That is why after cessation, when consciousness arises again, it is said that nibbana can be experienced for the first time - because complete non-attacchment has been exprienced for the first time, and with complete non-attachment, there is a complete letting go, complete freedom, and no more rebirth at all, anywhere, ever, in any time, on any plane, etc.

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#19 2021-05-14 00:08:18

mahengrui1
Member

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

pete wrote:

That is why after cessation, when consciousness arises again, it is said that nibbana can be experienced for the first time - because complete non-attacchment has been exprienced for the first time, and with complete non-attachment, there is a complete letting go, complete freedom, and no more rebirth at all, anywhere, ever, in any time, on any plane, etc.

I see. You mean saṃjñā-vedita-nirodha-samāpatti, I meant asaṃjñi samāpatti.

I can still see Taygetan and Buddha s similar things. Taygetan says, karma is like game point, while Buddha says an Arhat can be immune to some kinds of karma, and Mahayana says karma can be purified.

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#20 2021-05-15 09:07:28

pete
Member

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

mahengrui1 wrote:

I see. You mean saṃjñā-vedita-nirodha-samāpatti, I meant asaṃjñi samāpatti.

Ah, ok I see. Sorry, I did think about maybe using a bit more Pali/Sanskrit to define things better, but didn’t want to bother people here with too much detail as this is not a Buddhist forum.

mahengrui1 wrote:

I can still see Taygetan and Buddha s similar things. Taygetan says, karma is like game point, while Buddha says an Arhat can be immune to some kinds of karma, and Mahayana says karma can be purified.

Yes, I agree, there are many similarities, so I find the subtle differences (like in the instance of karma) quite interesting to consider.

Similar examples would be collective consciousness, collective karma, etc. I think in Theravada those things would not be considered valid, whereas in some Mahayana traditions I think they would be.

Of course, no matter what we hear, wether from Swaruu or the Buddha, I suppose these things will finally make sense only when we know all this directly, for ourselves.

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#21 2021-05-15 11:29:59

07wideeyes
Member

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

pete wrote:
mahengrui1 wrote:

I see. You mean saṃjñā-vedita-nirodha-samāpatti, I meant asaṃjñi samāpatti.

Ah, ok I see. Sorry, I did think about maybe using a bit more Pali/Sanskrit to define things better, but didn’t want to bother people here with too much detail as this is not a Buddhist forum.

mahengrui1 wrote:

I can still see Taygetan and Buddha s similar things. Taygetan says, karma is like game point, while Buddha says an Arhat can be immune to some kinds of karma, and Mahayana says karma can be purified.

Yes, I agree, there are many similarities, so I find the subtle differences (like in the instance of karma) quite interesting to consider.

Similar examples would be collective consciousness, collective karma, etc. I think in Theravada those things would not be considered valid, whereas in some Mahayana traditions I think they would be.

Of course, no matter what we hear, wether from Swaruu or the Buddha, I suppose these things will finally make sense only when we know all this directly, for ourselves.

I think there are some good points here, Pete. For example, the differences between different 'schools' or types of Buddhism. Unlike Catholicism, for example, with its top of the pyramid in the Pope and Vatican, what we (for convenience, I suggest) call 'Buddhism' has grown in a less organised way. There is no Buddhist pope or big-boy archbishop. The differences are even greater when you include Indo-Tibetan/Tantric strands. I find this to be a good thing - at the very least we need to practice some discernment, instead of just taking it on a plate 'Buddha says this, Buddha says that.' An approach which will keep us circling around in samsara for sure!

I always have the feeling that Yazhi might get on better with some of the Tantrics, for example the Mahasiddhas, than the historical Buddha. They practiced 'siddhis', supernormal powers, which is really what Yazhi is doing with teleportation, freaking out the rest of the crew by pinching their food through the top of the table etc. Unlike some other strands of Buddhism, which tend to frown on these powers, considering them a distraction from the main aim of motoring towards total liberation, some of the Tibetan Tantrics saw their value. These energies could be harnessed positively, and in themselves provided an expanded experience of the potentialities of consciousness.

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#22 2021-05-22 03:50:15

pete
Member

Re: Swaruu on the historical Buddha?

07wideeyes wrote:

I think there are some good points here, Pete. For example, the differences between different 'schools' or types of Buddhism. Unlike Catholicism, for example, with its top of the pyramid in the Pope and Vatican, what we (for convenience, I suggest) call 'Buddhism' has grown in a less organised way. There is no Buddhist pope or big-boy archbishop. The differences are even greater when you include Indo-Tibetan/Tantric strands. I find this to be a good thing - at the very least we need to practice some discernment, instead of just taking it on a plate 'Buddha says this, Buddha says that.' An approach which will keep us circling around in samsara for sure!

Agreed. What makes buddhism appealing to me is that very "come and see" and "know for yourself" kind of attitude, without the need for hierarchy, mediators, gurus, gods, god, etc.

07wideeyes wrote:

I always have the feeling that Yazhi might get on better with some of the Tantrics, for example the Mahasiddhas, than the historical Buddha. They practiced 'siddhis', supernormal powers, which is really what Yazhi is doing with teleportation, freaking out the rest of the crew by pinching their food through the top of the table etc. Unlike some other strands of Buddhism, which tend to frown on these powers, considering them a distraction from the main aim of motoring towards total liberation, some of the Tibetan Tantrics saw their value. These energies could be harnessed positively, and in themselves provided an expanded experience of the potentialities of consciousness.

Yes, that's the impression I get too. I think in many strands of Mahayana and Vajrayana, superpowers and the relationship with beings of other dimensions become the main factors of the path. In Theravada of course, I find that there are provisions for these, if one is so inclined, but the predominant attitude is to put everything aside and just strive for the ending of Samasara. Either way, I find different aspects appeal to me at different stages of life.

I find the Taygetan disclosure similar in that respect.

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